Independence for Scotland

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by moon, Feb 5, 2012.

  1. Beevee

    Beevee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Gordon Brown.

    That's two successive Scots as previous British Prime Ministers.

    Both Labour. Both trash.
     
  2. fredc

    fredc New Member

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    And Cameron's father was born at Blairmore House in Aberdeenshire, which was built by his great great grandfather.
     
  3. Tyrerik

    Tyrerik New Member

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    What if that person's parents had faced the tanks on Glasgows streets in 1919 and had decided to move to England and exploit the English out of every penny they could to finance the fight for a free Scotland, and the person had inherited the fight and vowed never to return to Scotland until it was free? Shouldn't they get a vote to increase the chance the English can be free of such a person after so many years?
     
  4. Wingless

    Wingless New Member

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    I’m completely ignorant on this subject… Why do they want independence from the UK? Are they being suppressed or something?
     
  5. Grokmaster

    Grokmaster Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Will they paint their faces blue,and march on England in kilts...again?

    "Tell them, Scotland is 'flee' !!" :)
     
  6. Marlowe

    Marlowe New Member

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    With respect - Regarding elections - "PEOPLE " tend to "do" - vote according to - how they are conned by their political tricksters . People in general are more often as not , easily swayed by crafty /cunning politicians.
     
  7. raymondo

    raymondo Banned

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    You still have so much to learn , Grass Hopper
     
  8. Marlowe

    Marlowe New Member

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    They dont want - Total Independence - i.e. become a Republic .
    Their political leader have apparantly succeeded in making them believe they'll be better off as a quasi-Independent country by having the best of both worlds .


    ... -
     
  9. fredc

    fredc New Member

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    The Glasgow riots had nothing to do with nationalism, that was a class war.

    The Glasgow authorities asked the government for help as their police force couldn't cope.

    The tanks were there to protect the civic buildings, railway station, power station, post office and other important buildings. I don't think their guns were ever fired.

    Maybe the authorities in both countries over reacted but considering what had just happened in Russia it was understandable they erred on the side of caution.

    But what the hell, blame the English for it if you want to, you blame them for everything else whether they were responsible for it or not.
     
  10. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Well-Known Member

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    To a point
     
  11. fredc

    fredc New Member

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    No.

    There is oil in the North Sea.

    Need I say more.
     
  12. Tyrerik

    Tyrerik New Member

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    Well despite lots of Scottish troops in their local barracks they weren't used and troops were brought up from across the border instead. Are you then suggesting English soldiers are a class apart from Scottish ones? Scotts had sacrificed more than the English in the war that had just ended.

    When have I blamed the English for anything? Next I'll be labelled an anglophobe who hates all the English!
     
  13. Tyrerik

    Tyrerik New Member

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    Ah but most of it belongs to the Orkneys and Shetlands and they want to remain with England or even join the Faroese and Denmark!
     
  14. Oddquine

    Oddquine Well-Known Member

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    And that point would be in your opinion?
     
  15. Beevee

    Beevee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Some one needs to buck the trend.
     
  16. Beevee

    Beevee Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Far better a gun toting, undisciplined tyranny in Gaza? I beg to disagree with your eloquence.
     
  17. Oddquine

    Oddquine Well-Known Member

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    The fact of being in a Union does not subsume the fact of nationality, moon. The Scots are still a nation....but just no longer the independent sovereign one they were before the Union.

    British is a pretendy nationality cobbled together by the Act of Union. It has only existed for 305 years...and, while there are certainly people in the UK today who think of themselves as British first, there are far more who think of themselves as Scottish, Welsh, English or Irish first. You just have to read posts on forums and in the newspapers complaining that a Union of four nations have had Governments with non-English Prime Ministers to realise that.....notwithstanding the fact that, of 79 PMs since the Union, 69 have been English born, 8 Scottish born 1 Irish born and 1 Canadian born.

    Ernest Renan said A nation is a soul, a spiritual principle. Two things, which in truth are but one, constitute this soul or spiritual principle. One lies in the past, one in the present. One is the possession in common of a rich legacy of memories; the other is present- day consent, the desire to live together, the will to perpetuate the value of the heritage that one has received in an undivided form..and imo, that describes it very well.

    It is not something which applies to the concept of British nationaliity, because too many of the legacy of memories of all the nations involved in pretending to be British are of enmity, wars and domination.....not of friendship, fairness and equality....and more and more there is less present day consent and desire to live together because of little perceived value in our mutual heritage.
     
  18. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, I suppose Lloyd George was born in Manchester. Many people are, after all.
     
  19. raymondo

    raymondo Banned

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    They are right about God not being perfect . There is another example of him only being infallible on 87% of occasions .
    And in recent times , the folly of appointing foreigners like Brown and Blair is clear cut , with hindsight .
     
  20. moon

    moon Well-Known Member

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    Don't overlook the history of internal violence directly due to monarchical systems, including the UK. Canada hasn't experienced that because Canada's monarch is a looooooooong ways off and not recognized by French Canadians anyway.
     
  21. moon

    moon Well-Known Member

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    Sure, but come Independence there must be defining factors of Scottish nationality. ' British ' just won't do. The primary claim, as I've suggested, will be having Scotland as one's place of birth. That's a fairly universal requirement.
     
  22. Oddquine

    Oddquine Well-Known Member

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    Ah....... but Tony Blair was born in Scotland from an English born father and a NI born mother....so it appears that it was where he was born which is important to the Unionists and delineates his nationality....nothing else.

    I don't perceive him as Scots, despite his place of birth...and I do perceive Lloyd George as Welsh, despite his. Nationality is as much a state of mind as anything else.
     
  23. Iolo

    Iolo Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Tell that to the zionists.
     
  24. Oddquine

    Oddquine Well-Known Member

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    It will be the same as with every other sovereign nation, I'd expect.....those who are born here and those who move there from elsewhere and become Scottish citizens.

    If you mean what will be the status of residents of Scotland with "British" or other Nationality who were not born in Scotland after independence...I would expect that they will be able to become Scottish citizens if they want......otherwise their status won't change..they will still be the same residents of Scotland they were before Independence.

    I was going to say that British citizens resident in Scotland but not born in Scotland would just be assumed to be Scottish citizens on Independence...but that would remove choice from those who would prefer not to be Scottish citizens..because there is a difference between choosing to live somewhere and the assumption that means you want to change your nationality.

    Though I guess, given there will be no "British" nationality anymore, because there will be no British State, it is something that the rump UK will also have to consider as well.
     
  25. raymondo

    raymondo Banned

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    If you mean that the Scotties were badly behaved , you are right .
    They were slapped into place .
    Woud you let your children run riot , rather than administer reasoned and reasonable discipline ?
    Of course not .
    QED .

    Don't blame the system ( School) because of bad life training by families ( Scotty elders ) and their failure to mend their ways , despite free milk , meals and play time .
     

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