Scots Begin Struggle For Independence:

Indeed, as you have aptly noted Continental Europeans do not get their inspiration from Scotland when it comes to racism.

So please remember who exported hooliganism in Continental Europe before you complain about the Celtic / Rangers divide.

 

Of course England has a written Constitution, it has several. It has Magna Carta, it has the Bill of Rights, it has the Act of Settlement, they are all written and with other documents they make up the Constitution.

I know of one SNP supporter on this forum seems to think it would be a good idea for Britain to ditch the European Court of Human Rights and cited Britain being compliant as a good reason for independence.

http://www.politicalforum.com/western-europe/229144-scottish-independence-consultation-paper-11.html#post1060896443

 

Doing it again, fredc! Linking to something to which you can apply your own interpretation to further you own agenda.

I assume you are talking about Viv's post that you quote, because I am sure you are not referring to your own post in response.

Funnily enough, I didn't read that as one SNP supporter on this forum seems to think it would be a good idea for Britain to ditch the European Court of Human Rights and cited Britain being compliant as a good reason for independence.


I just read that as one SNP supporter who thinks that BritNats have no room to speak about the Scottish Legal System when they themselves are not in control of their own legal system. But then I read what is written and not what I wish had been written so I can continue to

 

Jesus ,
Who is even talking about Scotty exports , apart from you?
I highlighted it as an obvious example of Scotty racism to someone who wanted us to believe they were all Angels up north .
Get back on the button Frenchy.

 

No one believes there are all angels in Scotland, but when continental kids want to show their despicable racism, they go buy and sport British colours - not Scottish ones.
And indeed there seems to be much more racism coming from England than from Scotland, if we have to take your last sentence as an example of such despicable behaviour.

 

Then you put a different interpretation on the words "release a recognised threat to national security into the community" than I do.

I kinda got the impression they showed support for imprisonment without trial.

Personally I think it's a good thing for the Judiciary to be independent of government. In this case a British judge released someone against the wishes of the British government. Would a judge in Scotland not have done the same?

 

There is far too much racism in both England and Scotland.

However what raymondo was talking about is the sectarianism which is still quite prevalent in small parts of Scotland but is almost none existent in England. He is referring to the hatred between Catholic and Protestant in parts of Glasgow which whilst confined to a small minority is of a considerable ferocity.

 

Mmmm.....pray tell as your the intellectual on England......who is the heredity heir of the orange order???
And who pays the piper!
Perhaps you should listen to Paris Viv or Oddquinne instead of blowing wasted air into the atmosphere!
Learn about your aristocracy and its degenerate behaviour...even now!

Regards
Highlander

 

Mmmm.....pray tell as your the intellectual on England......who is the heredity air of the orange order???
And who pays the piper!
Perhaps you should listen to Paris Viv or Oddquinne instead of blowing wasted air into the atmosphere!
Learn about your aristocracy and its degenerate behaviour...even now!

Regards
Highlander

 

racism is very different in Scotland to England.

I imagine Paris is well aware of what he was talking about. However this is much more concerned with NI than with any Catholic/Protestant thing.

Now this comes from 7 years ago

http://www.republicancommunist.org/articles/EL010/EL010RCN.html

He reckons the emphasis on sectarianism is really to stop political activity.

I am aware that all this came up again last year due to the stuff with Neil Lennon resulting in the Offensive behaviour Law but here there is concern that this is 'moral panic' and the resulting response is an attack on free speech.

http://www.battleofideas.org.uk/index.php/2011/session_detail/5736

I don't live in Glasgow but from what I hear it seems to be not such a big thing now -seems possibly that because of the 'troubles' in NI that that area did not go through so much change as the rest of Scotland did in the 60's 70's.

Another side which is lost in this though I think is that Irish/Scot's in Glasgow have no time for racism having experienced it themselves. 3/4 of Scottish Muslims live in Glasgow so they live in an environment where there is already a strong anti racist presence.

However going back to your suggestion that Scotland was going to harm Muslims - that is where we need to look at the difference between Scottish and English Muslims and their feeling of belonging and there Scotland does significantly better than England. About 42% of Muslims say they feel Scottish whereas only 2% feel English........

Moreover a report a couple of years ago found that islamophobia was almost non existent in recent school leavers as was racism felt by Muslims towards other Scot's. This was seen to be due to the shared school experience as we do not have Muslim schools like you have in England.

Of course there are on going problems and things need to continue being worked on and improved but your suggestion that Muslim's were in danger in Scotland was not only wrong but was itself racist towards the Scottish people, as are all these 'Scotty' or 'Frenchy' remarks your friend makes.

 

You have no constitution!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpUjl4LvQM8&feature=player_embedded#!

But watch it all through...if you attention span last as long...you might learn something!

Regards
Highlander

 

Oh and while we are on football and racism, England seems to be hitting the headlines quite a bit at the moment

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17124938

 

Which friend would that be? I was just trying to clear up what appeared to be a misunderstanding.

As for racism in Scotland, here are the facts as given in wikipedia.

 

Mmmm...well at least the police are dealing with them!

Now...who's police force was in cahoots with Murdoch?

Mmmm....are how many policemen held down Jean Charles de Menzes and shot the innocent man six times in the back of the head?

Mmmm....the dodgy dossier?

Mmmm......Dr Kelly murder?

Mmmm.......7/7....the train never even ran!

Mmmmmmmm.........rendition!

Mmmmm......Torture.... Look at Craig Murray web site!
I could go on an on.....!

Regards
Highlander

 

As an American I find it quite interesting that Scottish independence could be considered. The Union of England's and Scotland's Parliments is about 300 years old. They have had the same monarch since 1603.

America would never allow independence for a State. Just ask VA, NC, SC, GA, FL, AL, MS, TN, AR, LA, and TX.

 

wiki????

Look at the poor figures given for England. None, just your riots. Not even mention of the BNP intimidation never mind the continual EDL intimidation or the EDL's relationship with anti islam extremist groups in the US and Europe or football. Seems you guys do not even bother enough about any kind of hate crime you do not even record it whereas any incident in Scotland is being treated seriously. In Scotland the slightest hint of something being racially or hate motivated has it as a hate crime. Oh I notice the crafty lay out of your source so as not to give information on England properly - calling all but race riots UK.

a balanced account, I think not.

any improvement since 2001 will have been put way back with the dramatic rise in Islamophobia in England.



Try reading proper research http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2011/03/08091838/4

 

The difference is that the US is a very new country of mass immigrants. Scotland, Alba is I think the oldest country in the UK. We have a far longer history as a sovereign nation than under 'union' with England.

 

If yo liked those you'll just love this.

http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/1488131

 

I just posted the wikipedia entry relating to the subject being discussed and get accused of being biassed.

Maybe racism is worse in England than Scotland, I don't know, if someone kills someone it doesn't seem to me much of a defence to point the finger at someone else and say "what about him, he killed two people".

The wiki entry shows that with the rise in Nationalism came a rise in racism, that is hardly surprising, historically it is usually the case.

 

The wiki article is not a good source. You say the rise is racism came with the rise in Nationalism, I would suggest that that is much much more to do with a rise in dealing with any kind of racism/hate crime resulting in higher reporting. The SNP puts a strong emphasis on getting rid on racism.

You decided to infer Nationalism in it's nazi form to make accusations against Scotland. That could not be further from the truth. We are not a full country and the Scottish constitution when it comes out if it goes roughly by the draft will include in it items to make such things impossible - far safer safeguards than you have in England. You need to start understanding that the SNP is not voted for for the old fashioned sort of Nationalist idea and is not support by primarily by people who have a 'Nationalist' feeling. That is why the term Independence is used. The SNP is supported because it is currently delivering what is best for the Scotland. My personal feeling is that for Scotland the best thing now is Independence. That allows us to distance ourselves particularly from the British foreign policy and allows us to invest in our people and be totally alive politically not restricted to any sort of 'Britishness'

My hope would be that we remain friends but I think we have gone our separate ways politically.

However Scotland is very definite that she is an inclusive country and is working, possibly too hard, at making sure any kind of hate crime or racism is dealt with. That is why you have so much reporting.

IMO England has a much bigger problem with Islamophobia and a potentially dangerous one. When you have a PM who wants to opt out of human rights then the situation is even worse. Plus, racist jibes or banter are an integral part of much football still in England, never mind being recruiting grounds for the Nat Front then BNP, then EDL.

I hope England comes to terms with this but I have concern with the extent she is moving towards the right. A recent poll showed that while most people would not support any group they felt would act in a violent way, EDL BNP and so on, nonetheless a majority would support an authoritarian government if they felt it would not do this.

I feel safer with Scotland on these issues. We are not full. Independence will give us a written constitution which includes human rights though of course we will need to continue working on issues as and when they arise.

(The increase you mentioned may also have related to racism against East Europeans. You failed to put in the incidences against whites. In my own area there was problems because there was a factory which used to employ local people. It got an influx of East Europeans and the local people found it hard to get a job. People were resentful towards the East Europeans. Eventually they came to a agreement that they would always employ a percentage of local people and the problems were resolved.)

 

So what exactly does the "N" in "SNP" stand for anyway?

When you start manipulating peoples tribalist instincts for political gain you are always going to get a rise in racism. Patriotism and racism are pretty much the same thing.

 

Such ignorance knows no bounds. Yes, it is the Scottish Nationalist Party, a party believing since it came into being that Scotland would do better on it's own than in the Union. Scotland has always been a Nation. It was Nation before England was a nation. Indeed had Scottish people been better informed there is strong likelihood that she would have gone for the end of the Union a long time ago.

Your problem comes from taking the work Nationalist in the SNP and trying to present it as a Nazi version of Nationalism. wrong, fail, bottom of the class. Yes, for Scotland to have her autonomy outside of the Union. No to mass deportations.

You are showing yourself to be an extremely ignorant and bigoted person, refusing to look at information which is given to you.

 

Well I sat through a whole youtube clip of Nationalist propaganda which dispelled all the old "Sots are better than everybody else" myths only to replace them with a load of new "Sots are better than everybody else" myths.

Trouble is when you ditch all the irrational emotions from your arguments it doesn't leave too much.

Ok so the "N" in "SNP" stands for Nationalist but you aren't like all the other Nationalists, you're different. Of course you are, that's what they all say. That's what the BNP says as well, ask them, they aren't racist they are realists they will say. If you had asked someone in 1930s Germany they would have told you the same, how Nationalism had made Germany such a better place, not one of them would have said "well we're a bunch of racist thugs actually".

Tribalism was fine when people lived in tribes, when humans were hunter gatherers, it was a strong survival factor. But man progressed, we learnt how to control our environment, how to grow crops, how to send men to the moon. Now we just have to evolve and ditch the tribalist instincts our psychopath rulers use to control us.

 

You have been given plenty of genuine information in this thread. You choose to ignore it all. Quite the bigotry. You are making me sick.

 

The hatred and lies some people will go to to steal peoples oil.