Scots Begin Struggle For Independence:

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by janpor, Jan 26, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. fredc

    fredc New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2010
    Messages:
    733
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    0
    But do they have anyone anybody ever heard of? Apart from Sean Connery that is. I know they have a big picture of JK Rowling at the top but when you read the small print it doesn't actually say she supports independence.

    At least Rupert Murdoch is well known, all be it for his alleged illegal phone tapping activities, perverting the course of justice and his support for the Iraq war.
     
  2. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,760
    Likes Received:
    180
    Trophy Points:
    63
    She doesn't.

    It was a very amusing piece from last May. Yesterday's news, in fact.
     
  3. Xanadu

    Xanadu New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,397
    Likes Received:
    29
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Independence (more national things) can end up in empire if the Scots don't look at German history (nationalism)
    National/cultural things are not a problem, nationalism is. If politics start to use national things then nationalism can occur. System nationalism.
     
  4. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,965
    Likes Received:
    3,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Because viv wants the consultation paper thread simply to refer to that, I brought this over here as it is about Independence rather than the consultancy paper. I trust that is ok.

    Unless you look at the process which led to devolution then you miss everything and that was a political process. Here is the post again - http://www.politicalforum.com/weste...nce-consultation-paper-13.html#post1060901713

    If you ignore that, then you ignore real politics and real democracy which Scotland took advantage of.

    Like England is you mean. This is one of the things we want to free ourselves from and certainly is one of the things I have my eye on. That has taken away the democratic rights of the people of the UK, particularly England and I fear very much for the living standards of the average person in the future and social stability in England.

    To the best of my knowledge I remember hearing that one of Salmond's intentions was to build back Scottish industry and manufacturing. There is no reason why we can not start producing good products which sell world wide like those in Germany. In this way we would not be dependent on Global finance and risk becoming slaves

    I do not think the Scottish people are as asleep as you think but obviously it will be up to us to make sure that mistakes of the past are not made and to elect politicians who will ensure this. You also forget that in Scotland we believe not just in individual rights but in looking after the common good - as seen at the moment by us keeping a Universal Health service and public provision of higher education.
     
  5. fredc

    fredc New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2010
    Messages:
    733
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    0
    No but the Nationalists are attempting to use association to manipulate the people. Once again they are using primitive tribalist instincts to control the masses.

    Association works, ask any advertising executive, they pay media stars and sports personalities millions of pounds each to endorse their products because it works. It works because the human brain hasn't evolved past the hunter gatherer stage. Man had to be part of a tribe to survive and tribes had leaders who set the standards for the rest, who decided which way they would travel and when they would stop. In the modern world we see celebrities in the same way primitive man saw the tribal leaders and people try to emulate them to feel part of the pack.

    Logically it shouldn't make a blind bit of difference if Sean Connery backs independence or not, his opinion should carry no more weight than the bloke down the chip shop but unfortunately man is not a logical animal and people will use that to manipulate him.
     
  6. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,965
    Likes Received:
    3,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    How about you stop throwing your toys out of the pram and become involved in debate.

    http://www.politicalforum.com/weste...-struggle-independence-31.html#post1060916342
     
  7. Oddquine

    Oddquine Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    3,729
    Likes Received:
    104
    Trophy Points:
    63
    All political parties wheel out celebrity supporters at the drop of a hat. Want a list of those named and paraded by the Tories, Nulabour and the LibDems last election. They're easily found.

    Senior Labour and Tory figures privately admit celebrity endorsement is now a critical part of their General Election campaigns.

    They hope that by getting big names to back their party, fans will do exactly the same. Today, with polling just weeks away, The People looks at whether a new wave of Cool Britannia is set to sweep the country - and reveals who our biggest stars are backing.


    celebrity-x-factor

    Funny how it is only when the SNP do the same as everybody else always does that it becomes something worth sneering about.

    Double standards in the fredc mindset much?
     
  8. fredc

    fredc New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2010
    Messages:
    733
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Oh come on, you only posted that 20 minutes before this one, I've been busy pointing out your attempts to use association to try and fool the other posters, unless you actually believe that the opinion of someone who dumped Scotland to live elsewhere for some reason carries any weight.
     
  9. fredc

    fredc New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2010
    Messages:
    733
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Public provision of higher education? Less than 20% of the students at St Andrews University are Scots. It's just a fancy finishing school for the spoilt kids of wealthy corporatists financed by the Scottish tax payer.

    And if you think Scotland can compete with Germany in heavy industry I wish you luck, you're going to need it.
     
  10. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,965
    Likes Received:
    3,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    generally you post within a few minutes. Yes, I thought that you were trying to avoid answering that post as you have the contents of it the whole time and as you still are now..

    total rubbish. I answered a post of yours. Oddquine has already answered the rest of that appropriately. I refer you to his post so you can answer

    http://www.politicalforum.com/weste...-struggle-independence-31.html#post1060916380

    well who is the little right wing nationalist now. Only someone who had stayed in the same area all their lives would have a say in your world. very concerning. Your dumped carries no weight and I refer you again to this post http://www.politicalforum.com/weste...-struggle-independence-31.html#post1060916342

    which carries a link so that you will be able to verify what I say. Not everyone just blows hot air fredc.
     
  11. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,760
    Likes Received:
    180
    Trophy Points:
    63
    You provided the link.

    You should have read it properly.
     
  12. fredc

    fredc New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2010
    Messages:
    733
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    0
    First of all you do know what the word "quine" means don't you? It's a Scots word, I'd look it up if I were you.

    I haven't seen the Unionists wheeling out a load of celebrities saying "we oppose independence" yet.
     
  13. Oddquine

    Oddquine Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    3,729
    Likes Received:
    104
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I should think that it carries as much weight as any opinion of anyone who dumps the country of his birth to live elsewhere for personal benefit, fredc, regardless of their politics.

    If other posters on here, the majority of whom will not even a vote in the Scottish referendum anyway, are so ignorant as to allow any celebrity to influence them, then they would be the kind who would be hard pushed to manage a mark in a box on a ballot paper which would be acceptable to the counters and adjudicators in the first place.
     
  14. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,965
    Likes Received:
    3,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Given that I am the person you are talking about here., will you please clarify what you are saying about me.
     
  15. fredc

    fredc New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2010
    Messages:
    733
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    0
    But they do, it works, just as they let other irrational factors influence them.
     
  16. fredc

    fredc New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2010
    Messages:
    733
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Don't panic, she was slagging me off not you.
     
  17. Oddquine

    Oddquine Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    3,729
    Likes Received:
    104
    Trophy Points:
    63
  18. Viv

    Viv Banned by Request

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2008
    Messages:
    8,174
    Likes Received:
    174
    Trophy Points:
    63
    For what?

    You started it, btw. And quine just means female. It can be used for young women but I have seen it used for all ages and even on WC doors in bars. What are you on about?
     
  19. Oddquine

    Oddquine Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    3,729
    Likes Received:
    104
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Are you? I wasn't aware of that. Sorry if I inadvertently offended.

    I was responding more to unless you actually believe that the opinion of someone who dumped Scotland to live elsewhere for some reason carries any weight. as fredc continuing on his Sean Connery theme.
     
  20. fredc

    fredc New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2010
    Messages:
    733
    Likes Received:
    20
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Because she has an entirely different mindset to me. I see myself as a British person who never left Britain and she sees me as an English person who left England.
     
  21. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,965
    Likes Received:
    3,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    My mistake and paranoia. As his post was in response to mine I thought he was talking about me having lived and worked in London for some time and saying no one should listen to my opinion. I didn't realise he was still lushing over Sean Connery. ;)
     
  22. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Messages:
    18,965
    Likes Received:
    3,421
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Here is the thing fredc. This is a political debate forum and you are spending your time stopping debate.

    Now in this post you actually began talking about politics http://www.politicalforum.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=1060916244

    both Viv and I replied to you and then you replied leading to this http://www.politicalforum.com/1060916342-post304.html

    Now you still have not dealt with this. If you refuse to look at the democratic reality which has led to Scotland getting to the situation of Referendum all you flames and baits remain flames and baits because you absolutely refuse to look at the reality, rather you try to impose a stereotype which has no place.

    I am not interested in childish waste of time. There is plenty to discuss but the first point is to understand how we got here and that was from being politically impotent within the United Kingdom. We changed that. England stayed the same - no England became worse. England became less democratic. Scotland became more. That is the truth that you cannot face.
     
  23. Oddquine

    Oddquine Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2009
    Messages:
    3,729
    Likes Received:
    104
    Trophy Points:
    63
  24. Viv

    Viv Banned by Request

    Joined:
    Jul 25, 2008
    Messages:
    8,174
    Likes Received:
    174
    Trophy Points:
    63
    You are criticising big Sean for living in other countries when you do it yourself, then. Presumably you live in Scotland now?

    Sean Connery's wife is not Scottish and his work takes him all over the world, so why would he not travel? It's perfectly legitimate. I know plenty of older people who live here and disappear to Spain for long term stays in the winter because the weather here is harsh and the hotels in Spain are cheap. They still consider themselves Scottish and would slap you with a wet fish if you suggested otherwise. Sean Connery has an interest in his home country and returns here frequently as far as I can see.

    If the referendum supports independence, Scotland won't be part of "Britain". What will people like yourself see then?
     
  25. diamond lil

    diamond lil Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2010
    Messages:
    1,760
    Likes Received:
    180
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I didn't have a problem with it. I thought it was funny, but had you read it properly you'd have seen it was about the mad scramble to get Scottish celebrities behind the quest for independence.

    Political parties wheel out celebrities all the time. Why did you post that link? What was it supposed to prove?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page