There is hope for a Secular Egypt

http://www.cnn.com/2012/04/11/world/africa/egypt-constitution/index.html?hpt=wo_c2

Egypt's High court have made a decisive decision against the constitutional body that is composed mostly of Islamist people this is an indication that at least the courts of Egypt are less Islamic and more about the voice of reason and justice.

 

Yes, as Juan Cole puts it;

 

The current constitution is also pretty bad http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/2011_Provisional_Constitution_of_Egypt it extends the power of the military council vaguely who have recently started running their own candidate for president while stopping others from a presidential bid. The old regime still has way to much power and they're very smart about using it. This is current issue is a stall albeit a controversial one so it would be hard to get by in the mean time protest against poor rulings will be the people's only hope.

The courts has very strong connections to the former regime as well as the current military council and since there was no draft of the constitution we can only speculate if it would be unjust or if they've ulterior motives. As far as i can tell their running the country on a wild goose chase so that the can get a former regime member in. The Muslim Brotherhood has tried to pass a reasonable law to ensure they can't run but that hasn't gone anywhere.

 

One wonders if the two sides know how to compromise. Given past Egyptian history, I'm not optimistic this will end well.

 

We'll know soon enough they are running out of foreign currency and once that is gone their food supply will suffer greatly but i doubt that will happen in all likely hood the military would step in and size control again.

 

Brings the American Civil War to mind, don't it.

 

Although my understanding of Egypt is that the different groups are fairly mixed up geographically.

If the situation was that the copts lived around the Suez canal and in Sinai and the rest of the country was Islamists, than I could see things getting exciting.

As it is the Copts are probably just screwed, its just a question of how bad things are going to be for them.

 

Egypt is a goner. I'm gonna long for the glorious days at Sharm el Sheikh, just as I'm already longing for the white sandy beaches of Maldives...

 

Them free clap clinics still operating ?

 

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No idea, as I said, I've gave up on Egypt. Worry not, my friend... there's always good ole reliable standby Antalya. That's where I'll be in 4 weeks... Wanna postcard?

 

how can that be possible????

not according to all the Einsteins here whose main agenda is to inform the world that Sharia courts are barbarians

 

The below are clear-cut laws of Islam as decided by great Imams after years of examination and interpretation of the Quran, Hadith and Mohammed’s life.
The courts that enforce sharia law are not barbaric; they simply enforce the law of Islam. So, let's have a look at what exactly sharia courts have to enforce (following is a small excerpt from sharia laws... i can post more if you wish:

1- Jihad defined as “to war against all non-Muslims to establish the religion” is the duty of every Muslim.

2- A percentage of Zakat (alms) must go towards jihad.

3- A Muslim who leaves Islam (apostate) must be killed immediately.

4- A Muslim will be forgiven for murder of : a) an apostasy b) an adulterer c) a highway robber. Making vigilante street justice and honor killing acceptable.

5- A Muslim will not get the death penalty if he kills a non-Muslim.

6- Sharia never abolished slavery and sexual slavery and highly regulates it. A master will not be punished for killing his slave. Slavery still exists amongst Arab Muslims.

7- Sharia dictates death by stoning, beheading, for sins like killing, adultery, prostitutions; and other Quranic corporal punishments like: amputation of limbs (chopping hands and feet), floggings, beatings and other forms of cruel and unusual punishments even for the sins like: stealing, sexual promiscuity, robbery, burglary etc.

8- Non-Muslims are not equal to Muslims. They are forbidden to marry Muslim women, publicly display wine or pork, recite their own religious scriptures. They are forbidden from building new churches higher than mosques. They may not enter a mosque without permission. A non-Muslim is no longer protected if he commits adultery with a Muslim woman or if he leads a Muslim away from Islam.

9- It is a crime for a non-Muslim to sell weapons to someone who will use them against Muslims. Non-Muslims cannot curse a Muslim, say anything derogatory about Allah, the Prophet, or Islam, or expose the weak points of Muslims. However, Muslims can curse, criticize or say anything derogatory they like to the religions of others.

10- A non-Muslim cannot inherit from a Muslim.

11- Banks must be Sharia compliant and interest is not allowed.

12- No testimony in court is acceptable from people of low-level jobs, such as street sweepers or a bathhouse attendant. Women in such low level jobs such as professional funeral mourners cannot keep custody of their children in case of divorce.

13- Homosexuality is punishable by death.

14- There is no age limit for marriage of girls under Sharia. The marriage contract can take place anytime after birth and consummated at age 8 or 9.

15- Rebelliousness on the part of the wife nullifies the husband’s obligation to support her, gives him permission to beat her and keep her from leaving the home.

16- Divorce is only in the hands of the husband and is as easy as saying: “I divorce you” and becomes effective even if the husband did not intend it.

17- There is no common property between husband and wife and the husband’s property does not automatically go to the wife after his death.

18- A woman inherits half what a man inherits. Sister gets half of what brother gets.

19- A man has the right to have up to 4 wives and wife has no right to divorce him even if he is polygamous.

2o- The dowry is given in exchange for the woman’s sexual organs.

21- A man is allowed to have sex with slave women and also with women captured in battle (concubines), and if the enslaved woman is married her marriage is annulled.

22- The testimony of a woman in court is half the value of a man; that is, two women equal to one man.

23- A woman looses custody if she remarries.

24- A rapist may only be required to pay the bride-money (dowry) without marrying the rape victim.

25- A Muslim woman must cover every inch of her body which is considered “Awrah,” a sexual organ. Some schools of Sharia allow the face and some don’t.

26- A Muslim man is forgiven if he kills his wife caught in the act of adultery. However, the opposite is not true for women since he “could be married to the woman he was caught with.”

27. The perpetrators of genocide, mass rape and plunder will not be punished if they repent – Codified Islamic Law Vol 1 # 13.

28. To prove rape, a woman must have 4 male witnesses. Women’s testimony is not accepted – Pakistan’s Hudood ordnance 7 of 1979 amended by 8B of 1980. Thousands of raped women and girls in many countries have been charged with Zena (physical relations outside marriage) and punished by Sharia courts for want of witnesses.

29. All modern music including sexually explicit music of any kind is strictly prohibited and punishable by Islamic Sharia code of justice. Only Islamic songs are allowed.

And the most interesting one:

33-It is obligatory for a Muslim to lie if the purpose is obligatory and is known as Taqiyya (Islamic Deception). That means that for the sake of abiding with Islam’s commandments, such as jihad, a Muslim is obliged to lie and should not have any feelings of guilt or shame associated with this kind of lying.

The last one (33) is indeed the most interesting, as it explains why islamic bootlickers of this forum lie and lie, and then lie some more about islam - Allah himself directs them

 

So in order to prevent Egypt becoming an Islamist state, the courts have to totally short circuit democracy, since if they have democracy, they'll vote for an Islamist state.

Why did we support getting rid of Mubarak again?

 

Democracy is exclusively a western concept. It doesn''t translate into Arabic. Democracy is not meant for the Egyptians.

 

There is still a feeling out there that the Sharia stuff Dutch is talking about is antiquated like witch trials and ignored by Muslims the way Jews edicts about stoning people for this and that are ignored by Israel. And the vast majority of Americans still believe that people everywhere are either basically decent at some level or at least have a rational self interest, one or the other of which is require for democracy to "work right". This belief is bolstered by how other groups like the Japanese got with the program and turned their countries around.

Also expatriate Muslims in Canada and the US tend to not be so vicious or hold to those beliefs, that's often why they chose to leave their homeland and come here in the first place.

I'm still not giving up on Egypt, they're a mixed country. But I think the versions of Islam present in the middle east may require us to re-examine some of our assumptions about people over there as the most energized groups lack decency towards non-muslims and additionally lack rational self interest. And they are very proud of both those facts.

 

To be fair I'm pretty sure democracy after a fashion is actually covered in Sharia. Just with clauses about assasinating non-muslims should they come to power and a general feeling that voting should be about many muslims wolves and few non-muslim sheep voting to see who is going to lose their head.

 

I think the benighted view democracy as an attempt to supercede the Laws of God with the Laws of Man. That is forbidden in the view of the primitive screwheads.

 

Not sure why everyone thinks Egypt shouldn't be an Islamic State, most of the people as muslims. It would be like Italy not being a christian state, sure they may get along with other religions, but they're based on christianity.

 

Well I hope you're right, and Egypt becomes a secular democracy, but given how the voting went, my hopes are not high.

 

First of all Italy isn't a Christian state, in that they no longer have Christianity as the official state religion. It's just a country with a lot of Christians and rich Christian heritage.

That's rather what much of the world and a lot of Egyptians are hoping for Egypt.

So far we've got the temporary constitution put together by the Supreme Council of Armed Forces, which declares Islam as the state religion and states that principles of Islamic law (Shari’a) are the principal source of legislation. However after that it seems relatively reasonable and might not even allow people to kill others for converting from Islam or for making fun of their prophet, which is more typical of Islamic countries.

I guess we'll see. Though I'm starting to think that a takeover of Egypt by it's military might not be a bad thing. But I suppose that's unlikely. At the least maybe they'll guide the country towards a future that might be oppressive of non-muslims but that maybe won't drive them out nor start a war with Israel or the US.

I mean the OP is actually a rather hopeful thing in a way.

 

Democracy is inclusive of all people including religion, Islamic State is only for Muslims to say Democracy is not meant for Egyptians so is Islamic State not meant for Egypt.

 

The official name of the country is "the Islamic Republic of Egypt" and it says it all. I doubt renaming it into "the Democratic Republic of Egypt" is in the cards for this century.

 

The only people who will resist to change Egypt to a true free none religious State are the Islamist. It is very ironic that Christians have not advocated that Egypt should be called Christian Republic of Egypt unlike Muslims who want it to be called Islamic State.

 

I wish the best for the Egyptian people and their future government.

 

Democracy works for all people. For example: If the majority of Egyptians want an Islamic dictator that's what they will elect and that's what they will deserve. Democracy doesn't have to be synonymous with westernized democracy.