Islam Thread

Haha.... yes, your opinions. It is just coincidence that the same manipulated verses are also found on Religion of Peace.

You will never duplicate anything from an Islamic website because you won't even try to understand the verses you post. At least you openly admit it.

Dix, get real now. This has not been the first time you have posted those very same verses, and not the first time I have explained them to you and others like you. The problem is you just don't listen. No matter what I say, you seem to think you know more about my faith than I do.

Post your nonsense in the appropriate thread. This is not the thread for your trolling. I will not waste my own time filling this thread with responses to your ignorance anymore. That is why I started the other thread, for people to express their dislike with Islam in a respectful way, to get dialogue going between Muslims and non-Muslims about differences and views of the faith.

 

The next time you and God have a chat ask him to send me the winning lottery numbers for the next 12 drawings and info on what the stock market is going to do for the rest of the year.

 

Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: Matthew 6:19

 

This would be a legitimate counter-argument, except for one crucial thing.

The Quran says nothing about killing people for apostasy. In fact, there is no human-delivered punishment for apostasy, only one from Allah SWT mentioned in the Quran.

 

Yes, very much so.

Actually it says a lot about your views, specifically that you are so deprived of an argument you need to manipulate holy texts to slander the religion.

You would think that.

 

How many?

Mocked him? How so?

He always has, so what's the difference? In fact he leaves most of the world in darkness.

What is that?

How do you know it was "out of this world"? Furthermore, how do you know it was only a small percentage?

How?

So you think God physically interacts with the world, yet you say he doesn't interfere in our free will? Make your mind up. Either God interacts with the world, in which case he has selectively chosen to make you 'feel better' and to let thousands of others die, OR he doesn't make any physical incursions on the earth consequently your whole "evidence" is nothing but what you perceive to be divine.

Faith is not knowing - you just guess and hope. Could you not also guess and hope Santa is real? Yes, but that would not make him real or active.

Because God clearly enjoys being alive, and there is no reason to say his desire to be alive is any more or less important than ANY other entity's desire to do exactly the same. Hence, if he acts to keep himself alive, he should logically do the same for all others he is capable of doing. Since that is everyone, why does he let (just one group) poor children die, who will most likely also go to hell to burn forever over religious doctrines they will never even hear about in their brief and painful worldly experience?

 

Whitewashing the hard truths in your religion is deceptive at best and dangerous at worst. As happens in many areas where Islam has gained a foothold, later become controlled by conservative and strict Muslims who cite the numerous violent verses and passages in the Qur'an and in the hadith in order to defend the infliction of a harsh law, like mutilation or crucifixion in Sura 5:33 and for apostacy where those same strict Muslims interpret death. You cannot say this is not a problem and you cannot say it is not because of Islam.

 

All religion is the work of a charlatan, often sincere, deluded charlatan, but charlatans none the less. You never defined what a true believer is and that's because a "true believer" is non-existent. When Muhammad died, Islam, imo, ceased to exist. By Islam I mean the religious doctrine instructed by Muhammad. Just as when Jesus died, Christianity, as collective of Jesus teachings ceased to exist. Because in both cases only Muhammad and Jesus knew exactly how to apply and understand them. So on and so forth. Religion is not objective, it is ALWAYS open to debate.
Now you may think, one can still be Muslim or whatever, by attempting to figure out what Islam really was, but that's all you will ever be able to do - try to figure it out. You will NEVER know for certain unless you have a time machine and can ask Muhammad every question imaginable, or Jesus or whatever. This is the nature of religion, and you may think it noble, or just a waste of time, but one thing is for sure the only "true believer" is the one who knows not what a true believer is.

 

But its stupid to say it is an Islamic problem since it isnt - its a HUMAN problem. The condition you describe is inherent in all religions and all ideologies.

 

Do you know what crucifixion is?

 

Oh I didnt detect the difference between these two VERSES. The thing is the two BOOKS are quite THE SAME.

 

No because you are so deluded its quite hilarious. haha

 

Yes, why?

 

In Islam just the offending apostates are killed. That's much better than under Judaisn where whole towns were completely destroyed and burned to the ground. In addition to killing all of the people they also killed all of the animals.
http://www.thebricktestament.com/the_law/religious_tolerance/dt13_13-15.html

 

I am not whitewashing anything. Provide a single Quranic verse giving humans permission to kill apostates.

As for 5:33

[5:33] Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and strive upon earth [to cause] corruption is none but that they be killed or crucified or that their hands and feet be cut off from opposite sides or that they be exiled from the land. That is for them a disgrace in this world; and for them in the Hereafter is a great punishment,

No mention of apostasy here.

[5:32] Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land - it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one - it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors.

Hmmm... nothing here either....

[5:34] Except for those who return [repenting] before you apprehend them. And know that Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

Again, I don't see any mention of apostasy.

 

How about Surah 4.55-56 = So of them is he who believes in him, and of them is he who turns away from him, and hell is sufficient to burn.

(As for) those who disbelieve in Our communications, We shall make them enter fire; so oft as their skins are thoroughly burned, We will change them for other skins, that they may taste the chastisement; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise.

Since apostates are basically non-believers they are subject to all of the sanctions imposed on all other non-believers. Those sanctions include death.

 

How about surah 4.55-56 = So of them is he who believes in him, and of them is he who turns away from him, and hell is sufficient to burn.

(As for) those who disbelieve in Our communications, We shall make them enter fire; so oft as their skins are thoroughly burned, We will change them for other skins, that they may taste the chastisement; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise.

Since apostates are basically non-believers they are subjected to the same sanctions other non-believers are subject to. That includes death if they don't stay converted. Don't make the mistake of ignoring the other relevant passages just because they don't include the specific words apostasy and apostate.

 

Thats because you cant detect even glaring differences.

 

LOL No that's because cherry picking two quotes is no indication of the entire texts, which are very similar. I realize in your world, you think manipulating information is the same as being truthful, but in the real world, with rational, non-retarded individuals such as myself, its both a stupid and pointless exercise in fraud.

 

So is that all you can mome up with to contribute to the topic? Typical for you.

 

No, but its all you deserve. I mean, you are so deluded its quite hilarious.

Hey, if you act like a retard, I'll treat you like a retard.

 

Evidence that Muhammad is a true prophet of God:
1.Download Item: .pdf
673.1 KB
www.islamhouse.com/d/files/en/ih_books/single2/en_Evidence_of_the_Prophecy_of_Muhammad.pdf

2.Download Item: .doc
2 MB
www.islamhouse.com/d/files/en/ih_books/single2/en_Evidence_of_the_Prophecy_of_Muhammad.doc

 

Again, these verses are not talking about any human-delivered punishments for apostasy. I have already said that the Quran describes Allah SWT's punishment for apostates. But that is it, only Allah's punishment is prescribed in the Quran.

I stand by what I said... There is no mention of capital punishment or any human punishment for apostasy in the Quran.

 

Thats why Ive provided 20 quotes that all show the same thing and youve offered a link to a Christian hate web site, without even quoting a word from it.

 

Thats because they come from the Hadiths. Revealing, when we quote the quran you insist we must look outside of the quran to understand, and then when we do you want us to limit ourselves to the Quran. Basicially you are full of it.