Being Catholic Means Taking Your Lumps

Methinks a 'tantrum' is coming.....How "dare I" read & understand the scriptures for myself...the gall!!

 

Nope.....just stating something that Jesus said, so we better be careful. Our measuring stick should be Jesus and what He said we should be doing and sadly most have no clue. Even what is called Church is unlike what I see in the Bible.

I don't even subscribe to mainstream Christianity it is a far cry from what is taught in the Bible.

 

That is not what I am saying at all, you read the Bible and use it as sole authority for no good reason. You cannot even tell me why you accept it as an authority. You, have taken a book that was compiled by the Church and accept the Church was right in compiling it, but do not accept the Churches interpretation of it. This is the height of absurdity and something every Protestant must come to grips with.
Tell me then is the Bible infallible?.
Those who compiled the Bible did they choose all the right books?
Was Martin Luther correct in removing 7 of them?.
If those who compiled the Bible could be wrong in some of the books, do you believe they could be wrong in all of them?

Can you not see the irrationality of your argument?, or is pride getting in the way, and you do not want to admit you could be wrong?.

 

The Bible that you recieved from what you term a 'mainstream' Church. The Bible that you recieved from THE Church.

 

Then why single out Catholicism? It's no different than the rest.

 

If we don't let pride get in the way, then we must accept that everyone could have made mistakes, Catholic and protestant alike.

 

The Bible was not written by mainstream Christianity (it was written in Hebrew and Greek…. all they did was translate it into English and whatever other languages) and I thank God for that.

 

I include them all.....Catholic and Protestants.

 

I do accept people within the Catholic Church are corrupt and abused their position, but I do not accept that any of the Churches doctrines are wrong. Catholicism is rife with corruption, however we must change it from within, as past saints have done. What we should not do is go and and fracture Christianity and make up our own theology, and have our own practices. We must remain true to the Church Christ established, He promised that it would not error, He promised to be with it always.

 

I said a Bible given to you by a 'mainstream' Church.
Who compiled the Bible?.
Was the Church that compiled it right in the books they decided to put into it?.

 

But that is exactly what Catholics do. When they sold dispensations for cash to fleece the believers, they were inventing their own theology. They have changed various closely held beliefs over the years, and Vatican II acknowledged that the faith evolves over time. So when you say none of the churches doctrines are wrong, you have to be speaking about the church in a given time period, as it does not remain unchanging and timeless.
So does every other denomination.
You have been indoctrinated into the faith, and that is the goal of every church. You are a devout Catholic, regardless of what that has to lead you to believe at any given time as it evolves.

 

And to stand up when need be when all hopes seems lost, the use of just war and just response will always be reserved at the end. Our Lord Jesus Christ took all the lumps He can take, that is why Catholics have to take all the lumps as well as true followers of Jesus Christ.

 

The most corrupt are the heretics and this include Islam and Protestants that have exploited the Catholic church and corrupted it to create their own churches, doctrines and ideologies.

 

I have already stated that there is corruption in the Catholic Church. The weeds grow along with crop unitl harvest time, then they shall be seperated.
Of course things change overtime, tell me a 1000 years ago what did any church say about IVF, or cloning. These things did not exist then so the Church not just the Catholic Church, but any church must develop a position to have on these things. The Catholic Church was ver vocal on opposing abortion, contraception, and IVF. Many Protestant churches accepted these things but in more recent times have begun to change thier opinion. Many more Protestant churches are now speaking out against abortion, contraception, and IVF.
Something that was doctrine has always remained doctrine, new doctrines are introduced for the very reason I have shown already. The world and technology develops, God is constantly revealing Himself to us.

 

Also, SM, I've seen pastors & evangelists 'boldly' say some pretty questionable things as well, and dont forget this scripture:

James 3:1 American Standard Version (ASV)

3 Be not many of you teachers, my brethren, knowing that we shall receive heavier judgment.

The words coming from those in authority shud be measured and per the scripture, "Study to show yourselves approved unto God,, as a workman not ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

The 'teachers' of the scriptures shud always be well-founded, and make it clear whenever they are speaking out of their own spirits, as opposed to established, sound accepted doctrine!

 

The Bible was inspired by God and preserved by Him, whom He used to do it is not important. Anyone that knows and understand God know that He uses whomever He please to do whatever He wants, the same way He used pagan Nations to punish Israel. God can use a wicked person to feed, clothe and provide shelter for me, but it does not mean that I am going to do the things that he does. The Pharisees thought they were righteous and they were doing God's will just because they built the sepulchers of the prophets and garnish the tombs of the righteous, but Jesus said that they were the children of those who killed the prophets and the righteous. So just because it was compiled by them does not mean that I am going to believe and do what they believe.....it is what Jesus said that I pay attention to and strive to do. And very often what religious people say is not the same thing that Jesus says.

 

The selling of dispensations was Catholic doctrine. It didn't go away because technology changed that had to be adapted to. It changed because they were discovered to be charlatans and fleecers of people.
The weeds grow, get cut back, and grow back stronger.
It is not just your denomination. Don't take it personally.

 

It was not a doctrine that is a lie. It was not a fundamental principle of the Catholic teaching, it was carried out by individuals. It wsa not a compulsory part of the teaching of the Catholic faith. The Catholic Church may have accepted the practice but it was never a teaching of the Church.
If there was no sick people we would have no need of hospitals, if there was no sinners we would have no need of the Church.

 

No one is denying God inspired the Bible to be compiled. However one must comply with with God's grace, we still have free will. These men obviously complied with God's grace, therefore they were hardly wicked men. Another thing if they compiled it and you refuse to accept their interpretation of it, then who is to say your interepretation is any more right than anyone elses?. The thing about Protestantism is that no one can claim any authority, they just say that this is what they get out of the Bible. How can anyone know truth from error, if no one can claim their position to be authorative. If you say it comes from the Bible your opponent also claims the same thing, all protestants claim the Bible as their sole authority but hardly any agree on what is true and what is not. So who is right?.

Tell me when the Bible was compiled, was those compiling it infallible in compiling it?.

 

Who decides what is well established doctrine?. Especially if each of us interpret the Bible as we like ourselves, what you may call a well established doctrine others may well disagree.
You, are right however all dogma should be backed by historical, scriptural, evidences.

 

Actually, that isn't true. The Episcopal church is a three legged stool based on tradition, scripture and reason. Scripture is not considered the sole authority.

 

It was a fundamental teaching regarding salvation.

 

I have no evidence of that. And just because they complied the books of the Bible does not mean they were. I would need to examine their lives to see how they lived and if they were obedient to what Jesus commanded.....Jesus tells us that its what a person does that tells us who they are.

I have no need for their interpretation the Bible provides its own.

That is there problem.

No they were not, but thank God He does not need perfect people to use to put His word together just the same way a person who is moving does not need someone that perfect to move furniture from one place and put them in another place.

 

I am sorry that should be most Protestant churches.

 

As I say if the Bible interprets itself how come Protestants who claim this do not agree on the interpretations of it?.
Also how does an uneducated person who cannot read interpret the Bible?.
If you explain it to him then you are putting your own theology upon that person. If you interpret it to that person as how you interpret it then you are claiming an authority, which is exactly what you condemn the Church pf doing.

Another thing if the people compiling the Bible were not infallible in compiling it then they were open to error so you are therefore saying the Bible is open to error. If God was directing them (as I believe he was) and keeping them from error then they were infallible in compiling it. It is that simple, either they were infallible in compiling it or they were not, if they were ont then the Bible is open to error.