So if the US was founded on "Christian Values"....

So lets assume the US was founded on "Christian Values" (for a moment anyway):

Was slavery a Christian value?

Child labor?

Denying women the right to vote?

Please be explicit.

 

You know the answers. You are making an assumption that christians, for some reason, aren't immoral in part. But, like everyone else, they are.

 

I already know the answer, I am just curious to see how people justify X. lol

 

Good Question Wolverine.
2 evidences that there was a Christian struggle going on in America:

1. Declaration of Rights, 1774 that declared that American men had never consented to be governed.
This shows that some Americans wanted to return to the time before Israel chose a king, when the nation was ruled by the Men of society, where a man was king of his castle/house.

2. Declaration of Independence that gives a Divine Mandate to America “to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them,”and to have “a decent respect to the opinions of mankind”.

As for the 3 issues in lead article, slavery, Child labor, women voting:

Slavery is not always un-Christian. The real issue is how do you treat your slaves, whether lawfully enslaved, and whether you honor the time for their release.

Child Labor: For eons, children have worked the farm and village to help the family survive. It is not unlawful/unChristian by itself.

Women voting: Women should not vote. Women are sustainers of their husbands. But, if the husband supports aggression, it is her right to veto it and rescue the children from being drawn into the aggression.

But, under the Curses of the Law, when Christians go astray and violate their covenant with "nature's God", their children can become slaves, mis-treated workers, and their children and wives can rule over the man, and the men themselves become slaves of "those who hate you."

 

Sure there was certainly a debate regarding the role of religion in the new government. Of course we know how it turned out. The founders decided to estabish a secular government and took pains to ensure that government stay out of religion.

 

Originally the Founding Fathers avoided religion.
However, honoring the principles of "nature's God" is not religion. Protecting people's lives and property from criminals is not religion.

But, when they passed the Constitution of No Authority, they made Molech the official god/religion of the USA, and they have been waging wars of aggression against people ever since. Then when Lincoln came along with his Communist Revolution, we began to worship Karl Marx as well as Molech.

 

the Queen did want the Christians she sent over here to convert the Indians

fact is many liked England's theocracy as that was the way they were born and raised, but many did not and they started this country and put in safeguards to make sure we would never become such a theocracy, that we became a free country, with the freedom to believe as one wished without a government that's goal was to convert or kill


.

 

Oh I love that justification. Reminds me of the time I was told by a Christian "God forgives, so should you" when they never apologized for their harm nor ever showed any humility or compassion. The whole "God forgives" and "Christians aren't immortal" argument smacks of a lame excuse to sin. Oh, I am sorry I hurt you, but its OK, because Jesus has already forgiven me. Talk about selfish when the apology and forgiveness is for the Christians benefit, not the person that they have harmed.

Classic Christian nonsense that has little or nothing to do with the actual principles and practices of Christianity.

 

And nothing says separation of Church and State like the Pledge of Allegiance and In God we trust on our currency. I guess next you will tell me that the reference to God is nebulous and certainly does not refer to the God of Christianity... in a self professed Christian Nation... right?

 

Good point. How many Christians had slaves... how many offered the Indians the carrot of Christianity in one hand and the stick of punishment for those who refused in the other? A dark history that most Christians do not want to talk about... kind of like Mormons and polygamy.

 

Many people had slaves including Christians. That was the times they lived in. The Underground Railroad was formed by Christians to help escaped slaves get to freedom. Did you know that?

Christian missionaries helped Indians, but the US Military works for the US Govt, not the Christian church.

You're confused.

 

Many people had slaves including Christians. That was the times they lived in. The Underground Railroad was formed by Christians to help escaped slaves get to freedom. Did you know that?

Christian missionaries helped Indians, but the US Military works for the US Govt, not the Christian church.

 

Where you see confusion I see a different perspective. How many Christians were in the Military back then? Did the Christians in the Military forsake their adherence to the principles of Christianity in order to serve the U.S. Government at the detriment the the Indians? Back then like now, the actions of Christians represented the best and worse of humanity.

Perhaps you are confused. Or perhaps we just see things from a different perspective... I believe the later.

 

If America was a Christian nation, they would have built the New Jerusalem by now. We would have abolished most wars, depressions, etc. and all nations of the world would blessed by America. Medical knowledge would be far in advance of where we are now. We might even have colonies on Mars by now.

America would be vastly improved by now. But we chose stagnate in worshipping our ego god, Molech and wage almost non-stop wars of agression against much of the world. On top of our shameful cruelty we now have the possibility of the face Christians starting a nuclear Armageddon to wipe out many hundreds of millions of people.

Our officials should talk like the Prophet Joseph: THE PROPHET JOSEPH http://www.shiatv.net/view_video.php?viewkey=58cac2500dec3f80dc83&page=&viewtype=&category

Instead our officials tell lies to justify aggression against whole nations.

 

Yeah because Christian nations had such a nack for world peace and space travel except for the fact that most theocracies never work and hinders freedom (even non theocracies but use religion as a tool don't work very well because using religion as a form of law is easily interpratable and corruptable) and the fact that it was Russia that went into space first.

A secular government that promotes religious freedom proves to be more effective in promoting a freer society overall.

 

Of course the founders were all dead when they put "In God we Trust" on our currency and I was alive when they put "under god" in the pledge so what's your point?

...and there was NO reference to a god of any kind when the founders established our government through the Constitution of the United States.

 

If you chose to believe that the Founders totally set aside their religious beliefs when framing the foundation of the Country... then we will just have to disagree. Do you think that Obama or Romney are not influanced by their religion? Do you think that neither prey for guidance during their stent in Public Office? If they are truly humble servants of Jesus they do.

The morals, virtues and ethics of theist are deeply influenced by their faith... as are the decisions and actions they make on the job. Just my opinion though.

 

So? That fails to answer the question in the OP.

 

The founders were firmly planted in Judeo-Christian morals and values not the dogma. The Ten Commandments, for example, outline a general moral code that most human beings agree is the right way to preserve the human race and for individuals to be able to prosper. Central to these morals and values is the proclamation that people have certain inalienable rights granted by a Creator.

These are the morals and values that we (U.S.) have aspired to generally. Yet humans are imperfect and don't always execute these high ideals. That doesn't mean the whole foundation needs to be scrapped. There HAS to be a basic understanding in any society which basic morals and values that society wishes to uphold. Otherwise you have anarchy.

 

yep, some thought it was ok to kill the Indians if they did not convert, some thought it was a god given right to own a slave, obvioulsy most of us know better, but back then sadly some did not... or just did not care

 

yes, the ten commandments includes a couple universal truths, the rest were just bs to promote the religion, that much is obvious


.[video=youtube;p-RGN21TSGk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=p-RGN21TSGk[/video]

 

.... and what portions of the Ten Commandments found their way into the Constitution?

"Jesus (*)(*)(*)(*)ing Christ"

It appears my freedom of speech is recognized, however the punishable by death rule against blasphemy was not recognized in the Ten Commandments. There goes Commandment #1 I guess.

 

The "Christian" nations, including America, have not been Christian for a long time, if they ever were.
They call themselves Christians, but follow the doctrines of the Pharisees.

A true Christian nation Protects the lives and property of people and punishes those who initiate the use of force.
In a genuine Christian nation, a man is king of his house. It is not taxed, and his enjoyment is not obstructed. There is no interest on government loans for homes and businesses. There is periodic debt forgiveness. and such a country considers itself bound to honor this Divine Mandate:
“to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them,”and to have “a decent respect to the opinions of mankind”


When the liars and looters are stopped, we can build Heaven on Earth in the Here and Now.

 

Well if you don't think think they set aside their religious beliefs then show us in the Constitution where evidence of their religious beliefs shine through. Show us something ANYTHING in the Constitution and explain how it originated from a uniquely Christian principle or belief. You simply can't do it. And if you can't do it the idea that our country was founded on Christian principles is just plain BS.

Like I said, even though they were CHristians they decided that a secular government would best protect the religious freedoms of everyone so yes indeed they set aside the idea of establishing a Christian government and established a secular one. READ the constitution.

 

All of these predate Christianity. Would it surprise you to know that in Ancient Greece and Rome, women did not have the right to vote? In fact they could not even be seen out in public without a male guardian. The Roman Empire was pretty big into slavery. Sparta became militarized just so they could keep their massive slave population under control. Child labor got kinda out of hand because of the industrial revolution, but laws where eventually passed against it.