The Holocaust revised!!!!

And what evidence have you provided? A link to a book...

Grow up.

 

Snake is usually a v rational guy, so I shall ask him this..

1) What precisely would it take to reasonably convince you that gas chambers were not used to systematically kill Jews?

2) Let's say you could be convinced of that, how would it change the landscape for you?

 

Well me old darling, once upon a time, before the world of the internet, people read books to gain knowledge .............Huuuuuh yes books. Now there's a thing eh ?


Oh and it is a link to chapter 15 of a very important book and if you are not much of a reader, just wizz down to about V in that chapter where the numbers story begins.

 

Professor Israel Shahak reckoned that in the vast majority of cases where Jews were expelled from countries in Europe and beyond, the expulsions were part of uprisings against oppressive rulers. Unlike serfs who were considered to be the property of Nobles, Jews weren't part of the feudal system and were instead direct subjects of the monarch - a privileged position in those days, and their standard of living was comparable to that of at least minor nobles. As they had grown wealthy from money lending to nobles and monarchs etc, since of course usury was banned among Christians in those days, they were able to buy themselves favours, which invariably included self-rule - which in those days meant rule by their rabbis - which could be brutal. So when we hear of them being banned from certain occupations such as working on the land like the serfs did, and mixing with the goyim etc, it was often their rabbis who placed these restrictions on them, not the monarch. As their allegiance was to the king, and their status allowed them to travel anywhere, they also worked as tax collectors etc. The more oppressive the ruler, the more the Jews thrived. They were feared and hated by the masses, but favoured by the rulers.

Here's an online copy of the book in case anyone's interested:

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/jewhis.htm

The author goes on to demonstrate how the modern state of Israel is doing what Jews throughout history have always done, except on a national scale. It buys itself influence and favours with the ruler, i.e. the US, by acting as it's bailiff. It keeps the neighbouring states in line by using overwhelming brute force, doesn't mind slaughtering and oppressing people in the slightest, all the while trying to make out that Israel is the one that's being persecuted.

Dusty

 

really? wanna bet?

 

Far more non Jews that Jews died during WW2.

Get over it.

Stop making money and political gain from it.

Stop wallowing in self pity.

Move on.

 

its a pamphlet of maybe two pages, full of crap.

 

Not even a holy man like Williams could get away with it!! Antisemitism is a very effective club...bong!! Some 30 countries created a law to make it a criminal offense, If you so much as openly doubt any of that hc stuff.

Sometimes I wonder, when will they come after us, just having a lively conversation about the Jews and the hc and everything else that goes with it? I bet Tomorrow!!

Most of all very profitable! Maybe it will be our kids who will with a fresh and enthusiastic mind start their own investigations, before they, too, keep the tradition of handing over their hard earned money.

They have to build their own swimming pool out of rubble and plastic linings, and then wait for enough rain to drop into it!!![/quote]Also, do not forget that Communists were the sworn enemies of National Socialists. The NS were right to be wary of them, you can see what these Commie bastards did to their own people, let alone every other nation they occupied.[/quote]The real pure Russians can sing a song about it! The Bolshevist rule was sheer horror.

Hitler was an idealist and wanted to clean Germany. His idealism got him into trouble. I also think he was to honest, if not simple-minded. He was no match for the Jews who held the strings of his and Germany's fate. It came as it came.... cest la vie.

Today they got much better methods... the financial bloodletting of nation after nation.

Yes, good example. What do the United States nowadays have The Home Security for?

There are simply too many indicators to contradict mass killing.
Most Germans had no inkling 6 000 000 Jews were gassed during the war, but get and got accused of lying. I believe them, they truly didn't know. And now we know WHY they didn't know!

I can imagine from what I have gathered so far the Jews would have been resettled in the East most likely. It is difficult to project what would have happened. There are too many big variables.

 

The Rothschild dynasty made yet more fortunes from WW2, let that be a hint.

And who funded the influx of Jews, the creation of their so called Knesset, etc? They did. Although when they fund things, it is really money they have earned for three centuries now of shake downs.

Israel is THEIR state, it was part vanity for them. Even today, by way of various proxies etc, they own about 80% of the land of Israel, in practice. The Mossad etc are not really there to protect the interests of some low level Jew. They are really there to protect the interests of Jewish shot callers like them.

It's a strange thing. Since the inception of Israel, we have seen average low level Jews get killed, be they IOF or otherwise. We have seen an Israel PM get executed,by a Zionist Jew. We have seen Arabs die. Further afield, we have seen assasination attempts on everyone from Pope's to Presidents.

Yet no one has ever wondered how the house of cards would be impacted, if they had chosen the Rothschilds (and their bloodlines), instead?

Just surprised that in all these years, no one has ever (to my knowledge), had a go at that? Not saying they should, just that in the grander scheme of things, doing so would likely have far greater an impact that one IOF soldier.

 

Also, do not forget that Communists were the sworn enemies of National Socialists. The NS were right to be wary of them, you can see what these Commie bastards did to their own people, let alone every other nation they occupied.[/quote]The real pure Russians can sing a song about it! The Bolshevist rule was sheer horror.Hitler was an idealist and wanted to clean Germany. His idealism got him into trouble. I also think he was to honest, if not simple-minded. He was no match for the Jews who held the strings of his and Germany's fate. It came as it came.... cest la vie.Today they got much better methods... the financial bloodletting of nation after nation. Yes, good example. What do the United States nowadays have The Home Security for?There are simply too many indicators to contradict mass killing.
Most Germans had no inkling 6 000 000 Jews were gassed during the war, but get and got accused of lying. I believe them, they truly didn't know. And now we know WHY they didn't know!I can imagine from what I have gathered so far the Jews would have been resettled in the East most likely. It is difficult to project what would have happened. There are too many big variables.[/QUOTE]


Very good post.

The one positive is that by and large, this thread has run to 700+ pages, and there is an encouragingly low number of removed posts.

A year ago, there would have been 50+ removed, and the mods would have had no choice but to end it.

That, a year on, we can have this discussion, in a way that indicates a maturity, is a bright spot imo, and well done to all those that have participated, and avoided the threats etc, that usually follow such threads.

Often people have some dog in the fight, and like a religous zealot that is being challenged, they will lash out if you are seen to contradict their comfort zone.

Also, when you try to share even interesting information with them, due to their religous zealotry, they will not only outright refuse to listen to that which could be interesting, they will lash out at you for daring to offer them something you felt would be interesting.

If those represent the champions of freedom, it makes me wonder what sort of 'freedom' they may have in mind!

Some time ago, and this was a v rare happening, there was a fine interview between Zundel and an Israeli journalist.

I thought you may find it interesting.

If you don't, it does not mean I am a hater for thinking you may have!

***

This video is one of the most hard-hitting interviews that Ernst Zundel ever gave to one of his political enemies !! A stunning interview addressing the centuries-old enmity between the Germans and the Jews...

The video is about 120 minutes long, with a introduction by Ernst Zundel explaining and showing just some of the MANY books in his possession (authored by Jews !) that he used in answering many of the questions presented to him in conjunction with this particular interview !!

The quality of the video is quite good (A9 / V when one takes into account that the master was made with the old style video cassette cameras that were affordable for that era...


[video=youtube;A5sbegfCz7o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5sbegfCz7o&feature=player_detailpage[/video]

 

O.k., let's first see who started the war or rather caused it:

Sorry, that doesn't count. In 1941 the war was already in full swing. New try:

read on here:
http://rense.com/general45/zzo.htm

 

The real pure Russians can sing a song about it! The Bolshevist rule was sheer horror.Hitler was an idealist and wanted to clean Germany. His idealism got him into trouble. I also think he was to honest, if not simple-minded. He was no match for the Jews who held the strings of his and Germany's fate. It came as it came.... cest la vie.Today they got much better methods... the financial bloodletting of nation after nation. Yes, good example. What do the United States nowadays have The Home Security for?There are simply too many indicators to contradict mass killing.
Most Germans had no inkling 6 000 000 Jews were gassed during the war, but get and got accused of lying. I believe them, they truly didn't know. And now we know WHY they didn't know!I can imagine from what I have gathered so far the Jews would have been resettled in the East most likely. It is difficult to project what would have happened. There are too many big variables.[/QUOTE]

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Very good post.
THANK YOU, Jack! It means a lot to me. You stood out from day one, when I came back and slowly worked my way into the matter. You are an outstanding debater!

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Not pages, but posts!

Really? Where was I? Mainly sleeping, I guess! Haha...

I'm happy, too, that this particular forum allows this discussion to take place and almost for the first time one can discuss civilly a forbidden topic. I'm learning big time here.

The young roosters need to flap their wings and make some noise to let everybody know they are there, ready for a fight. We sensible ones must not feed into it.

Thanks, Jack, I will check it out. But from the picture I seem to remember having watched it before. There was a time when I discovered David Cole and was much intrigued. Both, Cole and Zuendel, went to Auschwitz together.

 

Here is another every so tiny problem that I have.

Aside from the small and absurd matter of Germans furiously gassing Jews, and burning them in individual ovens, that is, for all the years of the war, day after day, never stopping.

Aside from that.

What of the German people. Well here is an interesting one, since the general consensus is 'The German people never knew'.

Dear oh dear, and slap my bare left thigh.

So.

To recap.

Germany are being bombed crapless.

Against some genuine powers.

But never mind that, for all those years, it was Jews tricked into showers, gassed, burned in individual ovens.

Millions of them. And no one in Germany knew, right? Apart from who? The SS elite and the party members? Anyone else? No danger that news, as it does, would sort of filter among the public then?

I mean, we are not talking here about a single assasination. Not even David Copperfield could pull this off.

But okay fine then, the German people were all oblivous, lets run with that.

What if Germany had won the war? What were the German high command proposing to say the first time a German or anyone asked 'By the way, what happened to Jews'.

What would they have said at this point then?

'Um, Jews, let me think, remind me, who?'.

Or would they have said 'To be honest, as we were fighting the war, what we did was gassed them all. Sorry'.

The other alternative is that German people knew.

I do not believe for one second that German people would have accepted something of this kind. Even if there was some antipathy etc, no, sorry, most human beings would not know that their leadership was doing that, and collectively still be loyal to it.

 

But they were not doing it so there was nothing to know.

 

Precisely.

If it were true, and if it were known, they would do as I would do, and as most would do, and stop it.

 

At the end of WW2, the German people were subjected to what amounted to a national 're-education' programme, this involved a team of psychiatrists, psychologists, and others whose job it was to now sell the holocost narrative to young Germans, and certainly to sell them the idea that the man that had been iconic to Germany, was 'evil'.

It did not stop there.

Christianity itself was literally revamped. Such was the reach of shot calling Jews, and they still do it today, via their ADL, that the blame was extended to Christianity as a whole, and this gave them the perfect excuse to engage in what can only be called a rewrite of true Christian history, therefore, by definition, taking Christians, esp those in the US off, in a very unchristan path.

Yet the Talmud itself makes no bones about who killed Jesus. They are happy to take the responsibilty, and no mention of Romans.

Christian leaders were reeducated to teach their flock that the Jews had nothing to do with the killing of Jesus.

They were taught revenge over forgiveness, as we can see from the nature of American Christans, just like vengeful Talmudic Jews now, they are.

They were taught greed over charity, as we can see from the materialistic nature of those that pertain to be Christians, but who now love usury as much as Jews did.

 

In Europe, you would never be allowed a fair and honest televised debate on this, and if it is done in the US, it usually tends to end up a bit like this...

[video=youtube;dRrP7AevKi4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRrP7AevKi4&feature=player_detailpage[/video]

 

And we wouldn't be having this discussion 'cos there would be proof but there ain't none, so we are

 

Is there anywhere in the World the main media will allow or be allowed to have any such debate, honestly ? Nope, if not because it is a No no because of fear of retaliation.

I can't watch American interviews, they are always so awful

 

My attitude towards what is commonly known as 'the Holocaust' is a simple one. It happened - I have relatives in Germany, and have visited the Dachau concentration camp as a child, and in the company of German children and their schoolteacher - and it was a terrible crime against humanity.

The number of innocent human beings who were tortured and murdered, and their ethnicity, political or religious beliefs, is not the most significant factor. That other human beings are capable of doing such things to their fellow creatures, is what should concern us most.

This level of barbarism does not have its beginnings in an orgy of slaughter. It begins, almost imperceptibly, with regarding other demographics and national/ethnic groups as intrinsically inferior to one's own. They look different, they speak a different language, they worship a different God, they eat different food, they dress differently - ergo, they are not as good as we are. The state (and the corporate world) often encourage that sort of thinking in order to manufacture a threat which allows greater control 'in the national interest'. All of which flowers into full-blown nationalism, and those who are seen as the 'enemy of our way of life and our freedoms' are incrementally dehumanised.

From regarding 'the enemy' as less than human, it is not too many steps to eliminating the 'threat' by eliminating those who are perceived as posing it. It is only a matter of speed and efficiency whether this is accomplished by means of a concentration camp, a gulag, a 'war of liberation', an atomic weapon, remote controlled drones, or ethnic cleansing.

Otherwise humane and compassionate people are frightened into seeing no alternative to these actions (the details of which are hidden whenever possible - which explains why 'whistle blowers' are so publicly reviled by the authorities,) and prefer not to think about it too much.

The most important thing I take away from what I have been taught about the Holocaust, is the same message I take from Stalin's pogroms, and from Pol Pots massacres of his own people. That it was my fellow human beings who suffered and died horribly, and that the 'never again' must apply to every human being, not just a particular ethno-religious group. And that we should be on guard against the first signs of the nationalism which is typically the precursor to that level of barbarism.

 

Maybe Latvia.

Or Iran.

That's what it's been made into.

People so afraid to even have the debate, that they literally dare not.

Who won that war again...?

 

Yes, well, childhood memories ain't ever the best,eh?

Location first.

Dachau concentration camp was the first of the Nazi concentration camps opened in Germany. It is located on the grounds of an abandoned munitions factory near the medieval town of Dachau, about 16 km (9.9 mi) northwest of Munich in the state of Bavaria, in southern Germany.

Okay.

So we know that an internment camp existed, that is not in dispute.

How about the gas chambers?

Wiesenthal Re-Confirms: 'No Extermination Camps on German Soil'

In a letter published in a January issue of The Stars and Stripes, a newspaper for US military service personnel, Simon Wiesenthal re-confirmed, in passing, that "there were no extermination camps on German soil" during the Second World War. He made the identical statement in a letter published in the April 1975 issue of the British periodical Books and Bookmen.

http://www.ihr.org/jhr/v13/v13n3p-9_Staff.html

 

It sounds alot like the rantings of a Jarod Lochner, James Holmes or Adam Lanza.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes, Germany ran them alright, but on Polish soil mostly. A distinction without a difference.

 

I'm sure German people knew the Jews were restricted. Didn't they have to wear a yellow armband or star? They also knew that Jews were gathered into concentration camps, because the Germans themselves were threatened with it, if they were deemed to be against the regime.

Now, here is one little thing I would like to know: WHY did Hitler tackle two huge tasks - getting into war AND deporting the Jews? Did he have to do both at the same time?

However...
I have read that he said he needed another four years to be ready for a war. That I can believe. Germany had been stripped to the bones after WWI. They had been plundered, gone through a hunger period, a flue epidemic, the depression and rampant unemployment. I can so well understand their enthusiasm when the Fuehrer came and lifted them up.

And, Jack...
don't tell me Hitler looked or came across as a lunatic or bluffer or crook washed with seven waters. No, he was an honest, down to earth plain guy. Who would suspect he would order all Jews gassed or otherwise murdered? Certainly not his "Volk". The browbeaten Germans had nothing against the ordinary Jewish shopkeeper, banker or civil servant who lived among them.

At the Nuremberg trials in June of 1946 a certain journalist by the name of Fritzsche told the judges the following: "I, a journalist, who worked during that time, am of the solid conviction that the German Volk knew nothing about the massmurder of Jews. Whatever was passed as a Statement were heresies, and what sort of news got to the German people von outside was again and again debunked."

Therefore....
I find it really hard to believe the German "Volk" knew Jews were gassed.

In my wanderings I have come upon this fantastic site:
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/nuremberg/meetthedefendants.html

Fritzsche is also mentioned.

 

He did not anticipate for a war as large as the one that happened, it is that simple.

Just as it is a pure nonsense that he had plans for a World take over.

Look, his air force could not even reach our shores, without having to go back to refuel after 30 mins.

So how were they going to invade and occupy America, apart from anything else?

It was just made into a world alarm, in the same way that you see *certain people* trying to create a World alarm over Iran, which is totally out of step with reality, but they do it.