Mommy, is it safe to come out of the womb?

And if you had bothered to read any of my posts, which I made repeatedly clear over and over again, you would know that the law did not actually lead to the banning of Partial Birth Abortions, even though that was the intent. The abortion doctors just went right on performing these awful procedures, the only difference is that they now inject a saline solution into the baby's heart first. The wording of the law, "and thereby kills a human fetus", created a loophole which abortion doctors exploit. Because then the abortion doctor can claim that the partial birth abortion was probably not what killed the fetus.

In fact, this is EXACTLY what is happening right now in the Kermit Gosnell case. Gosnell's lawyer is trying to make an argument that his client injected a saline solution into the fetus prior to the procedure, and thus is not responsible for whatever else he did subsequently. Now the burden is on the prosecution to prove that the defendant reasonably should have known the babies were still alive.

 

Maybe because partial birth abortions are already illegal, whatever they are.

 

Perhaps you would care to explain why over half of the Democrats opposed the law?

How many times do I have to tell you? Are you brain dead? Partial birth abortions are perfectly legal, so long as they are not what results in the killing of the baby. But they do result in killing of babies, otherwise there would be absolutely no reason for the procedure. It is just that it is impossible to prove that the partial birth abortion is what killed the baby in any particular circumstance.

 

Not really. It is not my place to speak for others.

What exactly is a partial birth abortion? As far as I understand it that is not even a real medical procedure.

There is no need to sling ad hom either.

So again for the thousandth time, wtf is your point? Yes, fetuses die from every kind of abortion procedure. WTF is your point? That they die? Because we realize that and if you continue to point it out then I will have to let you know that you're just arguing in circles.

Fetuses die in abortion. SO WHAT?

 

Strictly speaking, it is the aborting of a fetus while it is partially outside the womb.

In more common usage, a "partial birth abortion" is when the baby's head is still inside the woman, but the rest of its body is outside, and before the head comes out, either the baby's brain is sucked out, or its spinal cord is snipped.

 

Fabulous. Well it'd be great if you could find this procedure mentioned in a medical textbook or medical dictionary so we can get a clearer picture of what it is rather than just take your word for it.

But again, what's your issue with this particular procedure in general? That it kills the fetus? Because every abortion procedure kills the fetus, what makes this one so special that you feel the need to single it out over others?

 

There isn't such a thing as partial-birth abortion, it was first used by Congressman Charles T. Canady, while developing the original proposed Partial-Birth Abortion Ban. According to Keri Folmar, the lawyer responsible for the bill's language, the term was developed in early 1995 in a meeting among herself, Charles T. Canady, and National Right to Life Committee lobbyist Douglas Johnson. Canady could not find this particular abortion practice named in any medical textbook, and therefore he and his aides named it. "Partial-birth abortion" was first used in the media on 4 June 1995 in a Washington Times article covering the bill.
So as you can see it is purely a political term used to heighten media interest, you won't find it in any revered medical text book.

 

Oh I know that and he knows that too, that's why I told him to cite a real medical source for it. He's going to come up empty handed and we both know it and it just goes to show that he doesn't have real facts to back up his claims, all he has is hyperbole thus far.

 

I knew that you knew

Just wanted to hammer the point home to this very deluded individual

 

Hammerin' those nails! *bam bam bam!* "Ouch! Got my finger!" =) /haha I dunno...rambles

 

Pro-abortion supporters might prefer I use the term "dilation and extraction procedure", but this term is rather vague, and could also describe a simple induced labor abortion.

 

I have no idea what "pro-abortion" supporters would prefer, I can't say I know any, but as a pro-choice person then using the correct terminology tends to mean people take you a little more seriously as they may feel you have, at least, some understanding of the debate.

BTW thanks for the PM, I'm sure the MODS will enjoy looking at it.

 

What's an induced labor abortion?

 

I did the same with my PM from him.....

 

Its basically an abortion

Induced abortion: An abortion that is brought about intentionally. Also called an artificial or therapeutic abortion. As opposed to a spontaneous abortion (a miscarriage).

Source - http://www.medterms.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=17775

 

Why? Because the mother is going to need a lot of therapy for the rest of her life to deal with the suppressed feelings and regret?

 

Only in your dreams.

Not ALL women are mentally unstable as you seem to think.


Do you argue against abortion because it gives women POWER over themselves and their lives....and you can't do a darn thing about it ???

 

Not nearly as much as you need what with the sandpaper fetish, and you dribbling over killing newborn DS babies.

 

What does "DS babies" mean?

That strange sandpaper comment is irrelevant to the main abortion debate in general. If I ever get into an argument about abortion with my friends or my family members, that argument won't ever be mentioned. In any debate between pro choice and pro life politicians, "sandpaper" is just totally irrelevant. Please don't try to derail this debate (as Whaler17 had stated before) with off topic arguments that don't pertain to this main abortion debate in general. I'm just trying to make sure that these discussions go smoothly and users don't argue about off topic kinds of stuff.

 

DS = Downs Syndrome, This person is an advocate of killing them at birth .. no abortion, let them be born and then kill them.

The sandpaper is very relevant as far as this particular poster is concerned, along with other comments it shows that the motives are not so much protecting the unborn but a deep seated hatred of women, and in my opinion someone who demeans woman in this way deserves everything that is thrown at them.

How can someone with views like this be given any credibility or any pardon.

 

And if this person didn't support abortion in the case of DS babies, I'm sure choicers would be complaining all the more. In fact, they already are:
http://jezebel.com/5930177/terrible...s-horrified-parents-to-watch-their-babies-die

So whatever position a pro-lifer takes, choicers will criticize it, either for being extremist and completely outrageous, or for being inconsistent.
Is it consistent to claim the a retarded fetus inside the womb is fundamentally different than a retarded fetus which has just left the womb? Maybe women should be forced to carry retarded fetuses. How do you supporters of abortion feel about that?

As for the "deep seated hatred of women", there seems to be plenty of choicers on this forum with deep seated hatred of men. Women who support circumcision — but only when it's done on male babies. It stems from their subconcious desire to castrate.

 

That really doesn't make any sense.

A fetus prior to birth, according to the law, is not a person - whether you personally believe that or not is irrelevant - once the birth has taken place to kill any post-born, regardless of its mental or physical capacity is a crime.

 

The advocating of shoving sandpaper up women's vaginas to PUNISH them for having an abortion is ON topic.

It is more on topic than bringing "HOMICIDE, HOMICIDE EEEK SQUAWCK,ITS,HOMICIDEDROOLHOMICIDE!!" into every thread.

YOU brought the fake war on Christmas into a thread on abortion..! That had nothing to do with abortion..

It isn't your job to "make sure these discussions go smoothly"". (that "control issue Anti-Choicers have?)

You mentioned one time you wanted to know why I thought Anti-Choicers wanted to punish women for having sex and the POWER and RIGHT to have abortions and THAT is ONE example .....very blatant....

 

Are ya worried?

 

I strongly feel that stereotyping people and having prejudices against people is wrong, and yes, that includes not only racism, but also sexism. So, I'm pro life. But I'm not sexist at all. That's just derailing this discussion with some off topic claims, in order to avoid the main questions that we're debating.

Pro life people don't hate women. That's just an ad hominem fallacy against the pro life people. Pro life people hate the stupid opinions of woman worshipers. There's a big difference between those two things.