Were birthers a bunch of nut jobs?

I think the most obvious proof of what nutjobs Birthers are are the posts by Birthers here on PF.

Browse around the Conspiracy theory section and how few Birthers appear to have even a small claim to sanity.

 

never too late to switch sides j.

 

You are correct- my post was a typical Birther skeptic response- you lied, I pointed out the lie, you tap dance around and pretend what you said meant something different.


How was claiming that Obama sealed the records helping to clarify things? Especially since it is blatantly false?

Here is your quote:

CKW quote:
"yes of course they aren't sealed by a judge. Just sealed away from our eyes by Obama himself."

What has Obama done to 'seal' these transcripts?

Nothing. Not one thing. I am not aware of any twisting of the English language that can be used with the verb 'seal' that makes a non-action into an action.

President Obama's transcripts are sealed by law and by his school's policies- not by any action by President Obama. To claim that President Obama 'sealed' his records is just a typical Birther falsehood.

Frankly it is such a typical Birther lie.

 

Well. you know perfectly well I'm not, but that is about par for the course with right-wing weirdoes. The only way they can possibly believe any of their drivel is by making up nonsense to 'back' it. Must get tedious sometimes. even for the very very confused.

 

John McCain is an honorable man that served with distinction in the US Military and he has never claimed to be a hero. I disagree with him politically on many issues but as a fellow Vietnam veteran I do respect his service especially in light of his long detention as a POW.

At the same time John McCain doesn't meet the Constitutional criteria that requires a person to be born in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof. John McCain was born in Panama and not the United States. John McCain is a US citizen based upon the statutory naturalization laws passed by Congress. The 14th Amendment to the US Constitution defines the criteria for natural born citizenship and Congress defines the criteria for naturalized citizenship.

The only ligitimate Constitutional issue of 2008 was John McCain's natural born citizenship and not President Obama's because we've known since 2008 that Obama was born in Honolulu Hawaii, one of the United States, in 1961 and was subject to the jurisdiction (laws) of the United States since birth. No evidence was ever produced that Obama wasn't born in Hawaii in 1961.

 

Wasn't the area in which he was born in Panama considered a US territory, or a US military installation, or something to that effect, though?

 

It was the Panama canal zone. The legislation history of the PMZ is quite interesting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panama_canal_zone

So McCain was born in a time when there was a genuinely grey area about the citizenship status of people born there. It's been resolved to everyone's satisfaction though. McCain had 2 citizen parents in any case so he was eligible that way.

The ironic thing is that the PMZ granted NBC status to people of one citizen parent. According to birthers, that means that its actually easier for people born in the PMZ to become president than those born in the USA itself!

 

Thanks for the info...

 

To me an interesting side note on this is that Congress made it clear that they considered McCain a natural born citizen and eligible.

And if the voters had chosen to elected McCain, and the Electoral College voted to elect McCain- Congress would have been the ultimate party who would decide whether his election was legal or not. Congress' vote in advance was to make it clear that if elected, that they would confirm his election.

 

Personally, I absolutely never cared where he was born.

His mother was a US citizen by birth, and that was enough for me. As long as by the time he reached 18 he intended to make the US his primary nation of residence, nothing else really mattered to me.

I see him as much of a citizen as John McCain (who was also not born in the US).

 

technically no... hence SR 511

 

Uh, actually he was born on a US military installation...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McCain

Seems to me that they were just confirming the obvious...

You have to do that with some people nowadays, unfortunately...

 

Thousands of natural born US citizens are born overseas every year... You just have to read the statutes..

All my brothers were born overseas.. I used to go to the US Consulate with my parents to register the births.

However, Obama was born in Hawaii.. Air travel to British East Africa took 4-5 days and women were not allowed to fly in the third trimester.

Sometimes you just need to know what was what in 1961.

 

what colour is the sky in your world ?... both of you... pathetic.

 

Do you care if he lied about where he was born?

Citizenship is not determined by what matters to you or me or any other individual, but by the law; and while indeed there is a federal statute under which Obama would probably be a citizen regardless of birthplace if he was born out of wedlock, Congress has never been authorized to confer citizenship by birth on the foreign born. Therefore I submit that in such a case, citizenship would be determined by the state(s) the parents were residents of at the time of birth.

 

Nope.. there was no "grey area"... He had twwo parents who were US citizens.. Read the statute.

 

The birthers reminded us of how racist the US can be. It was also one of the first waves in the war against Obama; instead of attacking his policies, they chose to attack his validity. He didn't entertain their nonsense and didn't release his birth certificate for a while.

This is another example of cognitive dissonance that ultra-conservatives have. They were given ample proof of his natural born status, including the health director of Hawaii (the most qualified person to verify this status) and the Republican Governor of Hawaii both stating that Obama was natural born in the US.

The fact that Obama's birth notice was put Hawaii's newspapers should have been proof enough to those who are sane and not prone to conspiracy theories.

 

Oh its just ignorance..............

 

What about John McCain then? He was not born in the US, so by your rules he is not eligible either. Neither was George Romney, Lowell Weicker, and possibly even Barry Goldwater. All were born to US parents outside of the United States, and all later ran for President.

http://www.legalzoom.com/marriage-divorce-family-law/family-law-basics/is-your-child-us

When I hear these claims, I think it is less about where the person was born, and more about the individual involved. Were you as vocal about the citizenship of Senator McCain when he ran for President?

 

This is a big part of the problem in political discussion we have in this country today.

I am pretty damned conservative, and I do not like President Obama very much.

However, look back and you will also find that I approach this issue in an entirely non-partisan manner. His mother was a US citizen living abroad, and that is good enough for me. Now if he had lived most of his life overseas and only returned for say college, then I might question his status. But he lived most of his life growing up in the US, so he was not an expatriate citizen.

And trust me, I doubt that race has anything to do with it. If he was white and was born in France, most of the same people would still be saying he was not a citizen. This is partisan politics that is looking for an issue, not anything to do with race. Because in 2000 I heard similar charges against Senator McCain from some Republicans that thought he was not Conservative enough.

 

McCain also had a dubious background when it came to his citizenship, but very few people questioned his natural born status, let alone the authenticity of his birth certificate.

Obama was a successful senator, he had childhood Hawaiian friends and teachers who vouched for him, the greatest authorities vouched for him, but despite all of this, his citizenship was still questioned. Yes, it was racism because Obama didn't look as American as McCain.

You can hardly compare the very few people who questioned McCain's natural born status compared to the massive birther movement.

 

A movement which never seriously took off until he became President.

If Senator McCain had become President, are you so naive as to think that would not have mushroomed as well?

 

Please enlighten us on what was extreme, use full quotes not sound bites.

Please explain what you are talking about here.

I am pretty sure he was clear about being proud to be an American....he said it 100s of times if you were paying attention.

No he didn't do it one time on film, but there are far more times he is doing it. But why let this not be a story, which is was, for weeks.

Why would this be relevant to being President today?

.

Why do you say white?

Please explain, BTW many people have conspiracy theories. Rev. Wright also believes that blacks were used in syphilis experiments by the government...whoops he got that one right.

I doubt it, but the real question is why is that important?

I think it is pretty clear, they worked on boards together, they knew of each other and shared some ideas. Yes when Dohrn and Ayers were young they were part of a terrorist group. But they are much older than the President who wasn't and we all have associates that do things or did things that we don't agree with. Guess what just because someone I served with on a board 10 years ago is now doing time doesn't make me a criminal. j

That is quite a conspiracy. I bet Rev. Wright would agree with you.

- - - Updated - - -

The Birther thing started long before he was elected.

 

which is not the same as being foreign born; and do bear in mind that Congress is authorized to "make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States", so someone who is not a citizen by birth under 14A might nevertheless qualify under such a statute.

No, by "my rules" if they are foreign born their eligibility per A2 is not determinable by federal statutes.

This isn't much help, since citizenship by birth is determined by the law as it applies on the date of birth.

My understanding of the applicable law then was not what it is now; but in any case, nothing I've said here is reasonably taken as a declaration one way or the other regarding the eligibility of any of these people.

 

Quote Originally Posted by Jack Napier View Post

[W]here i come from, we see men that carry weapons as being weak.


where I come (Vermont) from people like you count on people like me to help them, when someone breaks into your house, tries to steal your children or some clown with red hair begins to shoot up your hometown movie theatre.

you see in Vermont we have no gun laws, I carry a heater and a back up without having to clear it with hypo intellectually challenged liberal (which are destroying our nice state) phonies like you. that's right, loaded with an eighteen clip (one in the chamber) concealed, and all ready to go.

Vermont is also the safest state in America... see where i'm going with this ?? my only regret is that I don't pack when i'm traveling which I try to keep to a minimum, again, because of bleeding hearts like you. so the next time you say something really stupid like that, remember who you are, who I am, and which one of us is better equipped to save our loved ones when the bad guys start playing rough.