They showed this in SCHOOLS????

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Spiritus Libertatis, Jul 24, 2013.

  1. Spiritus Libertatis

    Spiritus Libertatis New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2013
    Messages:
    3,583
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    0
    [video]http://www.storyofstuff.org/movies-all/story-of-stuff/[/video]

    And to spare myself having to type the rebuttal:

    [video=youtube;c5uJgG05xUY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c5uJgG05xUY&feature=c4-overview-vl&list=PL39879C27CAFE5561[/video]

    Be sure to go to Youtube and watch parts 2-4 as well. The section of the rebuttal from 9:30 - 10:10 in part 2 made me ROFL.

    But seriously, my younger cousins are still in high school. Are they seriously going to indoctrinate them with this crap? Is this how radical the government has become that they allow this to be shown to kids? I mean WTF people?

    Justify your lies you socialist bastards. I know you're there - own up to your bull(*)(*)(*)(*)!

    Since this was made in '09 I apologize if this is old news but I wasn't always as current-events savy as I am now.
     
  2. Wizard From Oz

    Wizard From Oz Banned at Members Request

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2008
    Messages:
    9,676
    Likes Received:
    62
    Trophy Points:
    0
    So you dont know about old growth and new growth forests
     
  3. Turin

    Turin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2012
    Messages:
    5,685
    Likes Received:
    1,853
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    When those price controls that the guy refers to starts to kick in on things like, oh.. housing. and food... Thats a problem. Housing and food should never be priced out of the reach of even the poorest of the population. If it is, hen we need to work to find ways to reduce those prices. ( And in case you dont thinkfood prices are skyrocketing, I suggest you do research on the cost of just a loaf of bread, or a gallon of mil over the past 20 years. The prices for food are rising FAR faster than inflation / salaries.

    The truth is, that whats really happening is somewhere in between.

    The original video is crap. No doubt. But so is a lot of what the guy is speaking of is also garbage, because it takes certain things for granted, such as the human component of the supply chain, and reduces them to mere commodities. And the attitude that "We deserve the most resources because were just the best" is kinda crappy and didnt really cut it for me.


    FACT: The earth DOES have a finite amount of resources. No one can deny this in any way.
    FACT: America DOES use more resources than any other country on earth BY FAR ( I wont argue the 30% number. who knows what it really is )
    FACT: America IS responsible for the most pollution world wide. When we ramp up our efficiency, we dont lower the amount of garbage or pollution. If I was able to make say, 100 units of a product just 10 years ago in a single day, and due to technology, and efficiancy, I can now make that same 100 units in an hour. I am not going to just stay producing 100 units an hour and produce less or the same ammount of pollution I did10 years ago. Instead, Im gonna produce 10,000 units in a day. Im still going to produce the same amount, if not more, polution and waste.

    A buisness is not interested in efficiancy for cutting waste and environmental reasons. They want efficiancy so that I can just produce that much more.
     
  4. Spiritus Libertatis

    Spiritus Libertatis New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2013
    Messages:
    3,583
    Likes Received:
    30
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Strawman. It doesn't matter as long as it still exists. The trees are there so the birds can nest and the rabbits can live under them. Same (*)(*)(*)(*), new trees. Whoop-de-doo.
     
  5. Colonel K

    Colonel K Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2010
    Messages:
    9,770
    Likes Received:
    556
    Trophy Points:
    113
    So you really don't know the difference between old-growth and new-growth forests.
     
  6. upside-down cake

    upside-down cake Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    5,457
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    The old-growth, new-growth forest thing is a half-truth in a sense. Crops grow, get picked, and grow again, but there is such a thing as stressing the soil to the point were not only regrowth is impossible, but the soil loses it's nutrients pemanently. This would be only one type of factor effecting re-growth. Old-growth, new-growth also functions off the idea that the natural terrain is left uncorrupted by the tree-cutting process and all the things that might have been brought into that area.

    Also, a lot of land is cleared out. That land is turned to farmland, meaning no new trees. That's one problem. Most of the time, trees are not allowed to grow back. Once the land is cleared, someone sees more value in the cleared land than a re-grown forest so they purchase it and develop it into some sort of money-maker.

    Our system is wasteful, though, but even if it wasn't as wasteful as we think it's only progressional that we always think of a way to lesson the waste, just as we like to think of ways of increasing the efficiency of our computers.
     
  7. johnmayo

    johnmayo New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Messages:
    13,847
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Shameful indoctrination. What say you lefties? Fair to show this to a captive young audience? It can you admit this goes too far and we can all be reasonable?
     
  8. LowKey

    LowKey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,517
    Likes Received:
    411
    Trophy Points:
    83
    What's wrong with it? The rebuttal in the video was a joke I trust you have a better one. At least the original video had a list of sources to go through.
     
  9. johnmayo

    johnmayo New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Messages:
    13,847
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Are you kidding me? You don't find this to be politically charged rhetoric aimed at brain washing kids? i know you like your capitalism, you have a capitalist made device you are using to talk to me with, so I know for a fact you don't even believe this socialist babble. You don't believe in any of this socialism green peace garbage at all. So why are you saying it is factual?

    He had plenty of sources. Watch more then the first minute it is 4 parts of propaganda.

    - - - Updated - - -

    The forests are fine. We have so many trees now that the forest is burning millions o acres each year to clear some room. Move out of the city.
     
  10. LowKey

    LowKey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,517
    Likes Received:
    411
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Oh the general welfare clause. Forget the fact Washington, and Hamilton adopted the opposite point of view. or the numerous supreme court cases since (see Helvring v.Davis - Dakota v.Dole). i have a James Madison quote ooo goodie. Hey here is a list of unions.. Look at all the names on that list never mind the fact that compared to financial sector campaign donations all those unions put together are a drop in the bucket. Oh look the unions got a bailout of the auto industry to the tune of 24 billion.

    Never mind the financial sector received 425 billion. Ya let's talk about the freakin unions. What.. a... crock.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Again.. what's wrong with it? It's a bit juvenile. Its light years more accurate than the rebuttal though.
     
  11. johnmayo

    johnmayo New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Messages:
    13,847
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    0
    There is no shortage of trees. If we feel we need more, we can plant seeds. If the ground is infertile, we use fertilizer. Humans can grow plants. Not a problem.

    The red wood forests ok fine, special habitats ok. Lets deal with that at the local level instead of wasting money with do nothing EPA. Florida manages its fragile habitat, we could do a lot more if the Feds just have us our environmental portion back. You don't feel that way about your state?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Finite amount of what resources? Renewables too? Dont over generalize please.

    China is the worlds largest polluter. Your facts are wrong and therefore not facts. Edit please.


    We do not eat the most food on earth. We dont breathe the most air or drink the most water. What resources are you talking about? Specifically. Or are you just saying America is the richest nation in the world and we should change that?
     
  12. johnmayo

    johnmayo New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Messages:
    13,847
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    0
    The switch in time that saved nine I think it goes...tyrant force changed that interpretation. None of the framers advocated a welfare system like you all have come up with.

    Border line treason, except the president did it. Horrible corruption I agree. Lets limit the goverment so it doesn't happen again.

    I know, bankrupting cities and companies and getting big bailout money and taxpayer cash for votes. Corrupt as can be.


    You dodged the issue of political indoctrination of children. I can see you know it is wrong and you are rationalizing your leftism. When you dodge, it makes me smile.
     
  13. LoneLaugher

    LoneLaugher New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2013
    Messages:
    394
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I am not sure of many things regarding this subject.

    I am not sure that this video is being shown to the children in the schools here.
    I am not sure what age group the video is aimed at.
    I am not sure that watching a video qualifies as indoctrination.
    I am not sure why some people like to have things explained to them with things like an on screen rebuttal.

    I was indoctrinated as a youth. I was forced to go to Sunday school and was fed a line of complete bull week after week for years. Fortunately, I have a mind of my own and was able to overcome this. The OP needs to have more faith in the American child.
     
  14. upside-down cake

    upside-down cake Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    5,457
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Florida says it manages it's fertile habitat, lol. Claims like that are not new.

    But, in the whole, you might be over-simplifying the problem, as if it were something as easy as just planting more seeds, or just re-fertilizing soil. I don't know, but this still doesn't remedy the problem that a lot of trees aren't replanted. Who knows, though. It's likely that we will kee saying there is plenty of everything till there is nothing of anything.
     
  15. upside-down cake

    upside-down cake Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    5,457
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    The indoctrination part is very true in some parts of the country. The Bible, or Church, for instance, holds considerable influence in the Schools, and other things.

    But...I think indoctrination at any age is a clear danger. How many peoples opinions get led astray when they are old and young, based on what they are taught, how they are brought up, or what people around them are doing. Kids are the most suscpetible to indoctrination. Has nothing to do with inteeligence, it's about conditioning.
     
  16. johnmayo

    johnmayo New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Messages:
    13,847
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    0
    C'mon down and see. We are always adding more land to preserves from private donations, all the animals that were near extinction under democrats are in full rebound undet republicans.

    We have more forests and more preserve land and cleaner water and cleaner air then we did in the 60s. Every advanced country gets cleaner. Hong Kong the Mecca of free trade is also clean. Big state run china is not of course. With wealth they will clean up. But if you want to see nasty living conditions go to a poor village in Africa. Those people use very little resources the way she measures it, filthy and low life expectancy.
     
  17. johnmayo

    johnmayo New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Messages:
    13,847
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think we can agree that religious doctrination in a public school is wrong. I appreciate that you can see that this is also wrong, and that kids should be free of propaganda. My view of the left has appreciated considerably.
     
  18. upside-down cake

    upside-down cake Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    5,457
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Do you know, personally, or is that what you heard or read was being done? It sounds like the typical claims any state would make when questioned about their environmental practice. You could be right, though, but I'll just leave it in the limbo area until I actually know it to be true.

    Florida, however, does sound like a cool place to visit right about now :) But there are more states than Florida, and Florida's not exactly prime timber country.

    That is a very suspect claim. If a bum decides to wipe his face, he just got cleaner. It's even debatable if we are, in fact, getting cleaner. (debatable for me, since I don't know) I'd say there was an effort to reduce waste, but how strong of an effort is something I'd like to know and I'm hesitant of looking for polls or stats because it's common for such things to be manipulated to give the appearance of positive change. Kind of like how Obama's polls showed a great decrease in unemployment and such...
     
  19. LowKey

    LowKey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,517
    Likes Received:
    411
    Trophy Points:
    83
    "It is therefore of necessity left to the discretion of the National Legislature, to pronounce, upon the objects, which concern the general Welfare, and for which under that description, an appropriation of money is requisite and proper." - Alexander Hamilton http://press-pubs.uchicago.edu/founders/documents/a1_8_1s21.html.

    Hamilton believed, and Washington agreed by consenting to the loose interpretation of the General Welfare clause as applied to the passage of The First Bank of the United States (A nationalized bank that Madison considered unconstitutional, but lost the debate, and which most conservatives today would consider socialist.). That the legislature was constitutionally authorized to spend whatever moneys it deemed proper to promote the general welfare in the broader sense. John Adams also agreed.

    In 1798 he signed into law "An Act for the relief of sick and disabled seamen". Which took money from the salary of every sailor to go into a fund for sick or disabled seamen. It was the first form of what you would call welfare, and as a matter of fact was cited in the supreme court case for "Obamacare". It passed while msot of the founders were still alive.

    Any in depth reading of History, beyond the simple clipping of quotes from Jefferson, and Madison who were opposed to all of this, but again lost the debate in their own time. Support the broad interpretation of the general welfare clause. To dismiss it as a mere misinterpretation is ignorance at it's highest. The supreme court in later decisions examined this evidence, and reached the same conclusions.

    At the same time we see the opposition in this video whooping about unions when the video point out corporate influence in government as though they were equal factors. They are clearly not. Not even close. We see him groaning about defense spending only being 30% of the budget not 50%. Either way it's still more than the rest of the world spend on defense combined.
    http://www.globalfirepower.com/defense-spending-budget.asp

    When you put up the opposition to this video as what should be taught in school. I'm forced to guffaw because in admittedly the section I watched. The video is general, and shallow, but contextually accurate. Where as the rebuttal is completely wrong both in depth of knowledge, and in general argument. I'm forced to say in my opinion. Play the original video.
     
  20. johnmayo

    johnmayo New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Messages:
    13,847
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    0
    We have all sorts of wild mahogany. I got a 25 foot one in my backyard that will be a walking stick one day. :)
    Checkout America on google earth. Plenty of forest when you get out of the city.

    I work as a fisherman. Trust me, it is wild down here still. Florida, especially the keys, is a trip every American should take. Notice I have all day to spend on here? It is t because the fishery is weak. It is because bag limits mean I am done in 2 hours or so.

    Number and degree of polluted waterways is way down. You can swim in the Hudson now. We have trouble spots still, but we know how to fix them. Problem is we are losing hundreds of billions doing diddly on global warming when we can be fixing man made issues we have today. In Florida for example the Army corps of engineers tried to dry up the wetlands. Turns out that is a bad idea, and now we have to undo it all.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Was spending at 1% of GDP or 2% when they were in office?
     
  21. upside-down cake

    upside-down cake Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    5,457
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    I did forget there was a northern Florida also... Well, can only hope it's true.

    Do you fish in the Gulf? How'd that oil spill turned out? I heard that the oil was cleaned up from the surface, but there was still a lot beneath?

    The bold and underlined made me laugh, lol. Doctors also said that cigarettes were harmless. It was an official statement...when it was known to be anything but. But there was research and statistics and such passed by medical experts all declaring cigarettes to be harmless. I can see Florida having clean water, but the Hudson, lol. I don't think I'll be testing that theory out.
     
  22. johnmayo

    johnmayo New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Messages:
    13,847
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    0
    It never really hit florida except the tip of the panhandle we were lucky. I am on the south Atlantic side. Nothing fun in northern florida.

    Many do now. Once there was a mayor who tried to prove it and got an infection after a short swim. True and funny story. He was even making a point about how clean it was. But yeah, compared to Florida there water is nasty. Good call, I might have hesitations too to be honest. BS called. :)
     
  23. LowKey

    LowKey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 30, 2012
    Messages:
    1,517
    Likes Received:
    411
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Uh over 100%. The currency was worthless. The country was in massive debt from the revolution. All the GDP was going towards paying those debts. The United States Government purchased the first $2 million in stock from the first national bank with get this.. Money it borrowed from the first national bank!

    Some things never change lol.
     
  24. upside-down cake

    upside-down cake Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2012
    Messages:
    5,457
    Likes Received:
    123
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Well, you're a lot closer to southern Florida than most :)
     
  25. johnmayo

    johnmayo New Member Past Donor

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2013
    Messages:
    13,847
    Likes Received:
    44
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Haha. I like that too much rot argue with you now. But you and I both know none of the founders envisioned such a massive welfare state and our first hundred plus years or so of jurisprudence backed this up. You can find small cases about benefits for goverment commissioned employees, but that is it. Big socialism was getting struck down until force was out in the courts by that detention camp filling, money printing, gold stealing racist tyrant FDR.
     

Share This Page