legalize all drugs - free money and freedom

Discussion in 'Drugs, Alcohol & Tobacco' started by tcb5173, Mar 12, 2013.

  1. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    That the "hellish" conditions of Warfare on Earth is worse for the the greater glory of our immortal souls than any form of drug use in our republic.
     
  2. BleedingHeadKen

    BleedingHeadKen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hurray for the war on drugs! A 2 year old dies in state care, ripped from her criminal parents and rushed to the arms of cruel child abusers in the employ of the state. Their crime? Smoking pot.

    http://reason.com/blog/2013/08/02/state-seizes-two-year-old-child-from-par

    Someone tell me again how the state protects us by punishing people who have not committed real crimes?
     
  3. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    Sorry I didn't get back on this sooner but several of the former moderators from here have started a new political forum where I've been spending much of my time helping to get it started. So let me respond albeit a bit belated.

    "The wrong moral message" seems to be very vague as drug usage really doesn't have anything to do with personal morality to my knowledge. I'm unaware of any substantive correlation between illegal drug usage and personal morality. Just because a person smokes marijuana, or does cocaine, meth, or heroin doesn't imply that they're an immoral person.

    On the other hand I could legitimately argue that "nanny state government which engages in social engineering" that denies personal liberty is immoral.

    "The wrong message" is a different issue. This is based upon the assumption that if something is "legal" that it's something that we believe people should be doing but decriminalization does not equal endorsement of behavior and never has.

    By way of example there are no laws that prohibit an idiot from walking off into the deserts of the Southwest without any water when it's over 100F outside. It isn't "illegal" but that doesn't imply that our society advocates that anyone do this. They're probably going to die if they do but we don't prohibit under our laws. It isn't "illegal" for a married man to have an affair with another woman and then lie to his wife about having an affair but that doesn't imply that we advocate a man having an affair and then lying to his wife about it.

    Decriminalization =/= Endorsement
     
  4. Rasmus11

    Rasmus11 New Member

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    Everyone has a stake in ending the war on drugs. Whether you’re a parent concerned about protecting children from drug-related harm, a social justice advocate worried about racially disproportionate incarceration rates, an environmentalist seeking to protect the Amazon rainforest or a fiscally conservative taxpayer you have a stake in ending the drug war. U.S. federal, state and local governments have spent hundreds of billions of dollars trying to make America “drug-free.” Yet heroin, cocaine, methamphetamine and other illicit drugs are cheaper, purer and easier to get than ever before. Nearly half a million people are behind bars on drug charges - more than all of western Europe (with a bigger population) incarcerates for all offenses. The war on drugs has become a war on families, a war on public health and a war on our constitutional rights.

    Many of the problems the drug war purports to resolve are in fact caused by the drug war itself. So-called “drug-related” crime is a direct result of drug prohibition's distortion of immutable laws of supply and demand. Public health problems like HIV and Hepatitis C are all exacerbated by zero tolerance laws that restrict access to clean needles. The drug war is not the promoter of family values that some would have us believe. Children of inmates are at risk of educational failure, joblessness, addiction and delinquency. Drug abuse is bad, but the drug war is worse.
    Few public policies have compromised public health and undermined our fundamental civil liberties for so long and to such a degree as the war on drugs. The United States is now the world's largest jailer, imprisoning nearly half a million people for drug offenses alone. That's more people than Western Europe, with a bigger population, incarcerates for all offenses. Roughly 1.5 million people are arrested each year for drug law violations - 40% of them just for marijuana possession. People suffering from cancer, AIDS and other debilitating illnesses are regularly denied access to their medicine or even arrested and prosecuted for using medical marijuana.

    Prohibition is a well documented, abject failure. It corrupts law enforcement, eliminates quality control, subjects otherwise law-abiding citizens to arrest, prosecution and imprisonment for what they do in private, creates underground markets operated by criminals and marked by violence, destroys families, wastes law enforcement resources, increases violence, and violates the fundamental rights of privacy and personal autonomy that are guaranteed by our Constitution.
     
  5. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    Why do people keep blaming the law for organized crime and violence related to the drug cartels and gangs? It's the fault of drug users! If people never used drugs, there would be no drug war in Mexico or gang violence. There would be no demand for these drugs; therefore, there would be no organized crime selling these drugs. It's the drug users who are responsible for all of the crime and violence in Mexico.

    People who smoke pot should be ashamed of themselves. They are creating a demand for drugs. They are responsible for the crime and violence in Mexico. If nobody ever smoked pot, there would be no drug war in Mexico, since there would be no demand for marijuana.
     
  6. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    Why is it that only "original sinners" are trying to convince us a potential seed bearing plant is bad?

     
  7. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    Some of us blame our elected representatives for not being more faithful to our own laws, as a Standard fixed by Them, for the citizens in the several States as privileges and immunities in modern times.

    There is no longer any social Power delegated to Prohibit forms of Commerce among the several States, as a moral and legal-ethic Standard, also fixed by our elected representatives in offices of Public Trust under the United States.

    If only we could find nice politicians of morals in modern times, then we could secure the Blessings of Liberty in modern times.
     
  8. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

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    You don't seem to get it. The desire in humans for mind altering substances is immutable. It is part of the human condition, something we are programmed to want. You can't just make that go away by passing a silly, freedom restricting law. It's not the users fault that cartels exist, it's the governments for creating a situation where pre-existing demand can only be filled by a black market. You cannot make that demand go away. It's literally impossible.
     
  9. BleedingHeadKen

    BleedingHeadKen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A black market is a market in illegal goods. If the goods are illegal and readily available to those who want them, then there is no black market nor the violence attendant with that market. It's not blaming law for organized crime, it's blaming legislative and administrative decrees for driving some goods and services into a black market. Organized crime thrives on black markets, and the larger, more lucrative the market, the more the criminal organizations will grow.

    It's all the fault of people seeking happiness in a way that you don't want them to! Would you like some cheese with that whine? Some people want to self-medicate. Some people want porn. Some people want to have sex outside marriage. Some people want to lie or cheat at cards. These are vices, they are not crimes. It is about people seeking their own way to happiness and you insisting that how they do it is not your way, so they should be put into cages.

    If people were robots, they'd all act exactly the same way and maybe then you'd be happy?

    People who want to regulate the peaceful behavior of others and insist on seeing them put into cages and treated as criminals and otherwise use the law as their own moral hammer ought to be ashamed of themselves.
     
  10. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    There would be no demand for drugs, if people would just have some morals and not use drugs!
     
  11. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

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    Please. :roll:

    Get of your damn holier than thou high-horse. Drug use is not a matter of morality, and you should be ashamed of yourself for even suggesting otherwise. I've seen some stupid stuff on this board, pretty much every day, but that is probably the stupidest thing I've seen to date.

    The desire to consume mind altering drugs is INNATE in homo sapiens. It cannot be altered. It is part of the human condition. And you have NO RIGHT to tell another person what they can and cannot do with their own bodies. You are, fortunately for the rest of us, not that important.
     
  12. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    Prove that, with at least one quote from a scientist. Which scientists say that the desire to use mind altering drugs is a natural drive?
     
  13. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

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    It's inherently obvious to anyone with more than 2 brain cells to rub together. If it were not, we would not do it.
     
  14. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    You think that is bad, our War on Drugs even sacrifices the end to the means of our War on Poverty, contrary to what is "dictated by plain reason, as well as founded on legal axioms."
     
  15. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    What about laziness? Legalizing marijuana will increase usage, and more people will become lazy and unmotivated.

    Yes, I know that Steve Jobs, Carl Sagan, and George Washington were all hard working and successful pot smokers. But that's like saying that alcohol doesn't cause car accidents, just because not everybody who drinks alcohol ends up dying in a car accident. Yes, not all marijuana smokers become lazy and unmotivated. But some of them do. How can that possibly be good for our society?
     
  16. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

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    Who gives a (*)(*)(*)(*)? It's a free person's right to be lazy, if that's what they choose for themselves. Do you seriously not comprehend the concept of FREEDOM?
     
  17. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    It may have to do with the fact that drug dealers with a work ethic run the risk of being arrested, due to their work ethic.
     
  18. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    Which states do you think will legalize marijuana next? What will probably be the next state to legalize it?
     
  19. DentalFloss

    DentalFloss Well-Known Member

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    I don't know, not a fortune teller. If there are any active initiatives I am unaware of them, but that doesn't mean there aren't any.
     
  20. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    I believe there is a basis in the federal doctrine regarding States' Rights, especially for powers not specifically enumerated, which merely need three fourths of the several States to recognize; for example, if three fourths of the several States decide to legalize pot, then the general government should cease and desist in its infringement of States' Rights and separation of powers.
     
  21. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    The Supreme Court ruled that federal law overrules state law in regards to marijuana laws.
     
  22. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    Where did the Supreme Court obtain the authority to deny or disparage our Tenth Amendment?
     
  23. The Amazing Sam's Ego

    The Amazing Sam's Ego Banned at Members Request

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    What does the Tenth Amendment say?
     
  24. danielpalos

    danielpalos Banned

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    The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
     
  25. Shiva_TD

    Shiva_TD Progressive Libertarian Past Donor

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    True but 3/4ths of the States can unilaterally change the US Constitution and override any federal statutory law and there is nothing the federal government can do to prevent that (Article V of the US Constitution).
     

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