So...Why are U.S. Conservatives supporting the Liberals in Egypt?

They called it a coup and wanted Morsi freed and re instated and ikhwan leadership freed.

NOTE!

They know Ikhwan have access now to explosive files on USA etc and that;s why they want them freed after being in power for 1 year!

They sent no diplomatic mission to talk for 2 hours with Mubarak their friend for 30 years!

 

Well we know that McCain is so eager for his favorite team of Talmu-"Islamic" Allah-Akhbar cutthroats to take Syria for some grand new Caliphate of democrazy, that he goes over there bringing them as much help as he can.
We also know what President Putin said about McCain when McCain was threatening Russia for opposing McCain's glorious destruction of Libya: President Putin said that McCain has a lot of blood on his hands and spent years in a pit in North Vietnam, and anyone in such a condition must be insane.

 

The Occupation government of Germany only pretends to have respect for "freedom of expression". As for Al CIAda, Germany has to serve it as evident by Germany's participation in the "Islamic" take over of much of Yugoslavia, as well as their participation in the destruction of Iraq and Afghanistan.

 

The best thing we can do is distance ourselves from Egypt. No side there is worth being connected to.

The same goes for Syria.

The more we get involved, the worse it gets for us. If we stay out of the conflict, that reduces our chances of blowback.

 

Ha! I got to admit, that post got a laugh out of me!

To make it perfect though, you should have added a crazed anti Semitic rant, and maybe the line, "Communism has never been tried."

 

The Muslim doorman of a Christian house in Asyut murdered by ikhwan

 

too late

 

Senator John McCain is not only a true American Hero but when he was in that Death Hole of a Vietnamese Prison...and he lay there with a body broken and battered by his captors....and a delegation from the Red Cross was allowed in to see him and the other American Prisoners....the Vietnamese told the Red Cross that they would let McCain go.

McCain...even though he was close to death had made a pact with the other American Prisoners of War where the longest held prisoners would be the first to leave if offered and any others offered freedom would refuse unless all were offered freedom.

McCain in extreme pain and close to death refused to leave his fellow prisoners.

I know quite a bit about what it is to be a P.O.W.....and although I am not Military as I am..."CIVILIAN"...I am well aware of the forms of physical and psychological TORTURE McCain and other members of our Military had to endure in Vietnam.

Members of my family died in Vietnam and the experiences of that wars effect upon my family sculpted what kind of Man I would become and how I would act and treat others when asked to perform the occasional....JOBS...that I do.

McCain is GREAT MAN....and when Obama won the election and some Ultra-Conservatives wanted to bash Obama...including that waste of body parts...Palin....McCain said...NO!

McCain told Palin that the American People had just voted into office the First African American President of the United States and he would not let Palin or anyone else dishonor the election of our new President.

Ivan....you should stick to making disparaging comments to someone like me because I wish I was HALF the Man McCain was.

This is an excerpt from a news report...

Vietnam will continue to take the US as a leading development partners, Prime Minister Nguyen Tan Dung said Thursday in meeting with John McCain and other US senators on a Southeast Asia visit.
He said Vietnam and the US in the coming time need to boost further cooperation in commerce and investment, and asking the senators to help persuade the US government to apply the Generalized System of Preferences, or GSP, to Vietnam.

GSP is a system of exemption that obliges World Trade Organization member countries to treat the imports of all other member countries no worse than they treat the imports of their “most favored” trading partner.

The PM also asked for greater US support to deal with aftermath of war, especially the impacts of Agent Orange, as well as with modern problems such as climate change and the rising sea levels, according to a Vietnam News Agency report.

McCain, a senior Republic senator from Arizona and a former pilot who was imprisoned for five and a half years in Hanoi during the Vietnam War, promised he would work to increase US assistance in many areas.

He said the US could help Vietnam protect the Mekong River water resource from the impacts of hydropower plants and mitigate the impacts of climate change, as well as improve the skills of Vietnamese forces working to maintain marine security.

The senator, also a vice chairman of the US Armed Services Committee, was in Vietnam for a three day visit ending Friday with three other senators Joseph Lieberman, Sheldon Whitehouse and Kelly Ayott.

RELATED CONTENT
Senator McCain visits Vietnam
The delegation also met with Vietnam’s Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh and Minister of National Defense Phung Quang Thanh.

Now if that was me meeting with the leadership of my former torturers....I don't think I could have been so noble.

AboveAlpha

 

It's too late to avoid all blowback, but we can certainly minimize it by staying out from here on.

 

Abu Sina is right...it is too late.

The best thing that happened to Egypt was the involvement of the U.S. Military's CENTCOM in building and developing the Egyptian Military as if it was not for the Egyptian Military....Egypt would either have become a strict Islamic State or tumbled into Civil War.

If you were to walk down a main street in Damascus....and I happen to know this for a FACT....you would see store front offices with signs on them reading...Islamic Jihad....Hamas....Hezbollah....and a name I can't remember that is used as a cover name for the Iranian Qud's Force.

Add to this the Assad Regime and a Dictator that would rather prefer to drag down an entire nation with Tens to Hundreds of Thousands of Deaths rather than to step down.

Assad will be removed from power...it is now a POLICY....and it will happen.

AboveAlpha

 

The definitions of conservative and liberal are strange, and to some degree are relative. We are against Morsi because we know that the Muslim Brotherhood is not a democratic institution, but rather an Islamic one that intends to put in Sharia law which is the antithesis to what U.S. thought (both conservatives and liberals) finds to be the ideal. I don't understand why Obama every stood behind Morsi.

 

http://theamericanjesus.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Obama-crucified.jpg
http://christiannews.net/2013/01/21/newsweek-hails-obama-as-messianic-second-coming/
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...savior-furor-soul-train-awards_n_2199439.html

Yes, here, it's the conservatives using it as a form of derision, but in the media, it was used by liberals as part of their admiration.

 

It is simple.

Morsi was Freely Elected.

Hell...we KNEW that Morsi would be elected just as we KNEW Morsi would be thrown out.

Obama publicly backs Morsi as a Freely Elected Egyptian President all the while KNOWING that the Egyptian Military and Military Leadership is a CONSTRUCT OF CENTCOM.....the U.S. Military Central Command which controls the Middle East....there is also AFRICOM, EUCOM, ASIACOM....etc....as the U.S. Military is so massive it has broken down the entire GLOBE into designated U.S. Military Command Structures.

We knew that Morsi would be elected and knew Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood would attempt to change the Egyptian Constitution and replace the Egyptian Military Leadership with Muslim Brotherhood Members.

Most Egyptians...and most people in general do not know that the Egyptian Military is simply an arm of U.S. Central Command....CENTCOM.

So when Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood attempted to remove all High Ranking Egyptian Military Leaders...the Egyptian Military REFUSED as they were backed by CENTCOM.

Obama goes and backs Morsi as a freely elected Leader....Morsi is removed by the HEAVILY AIDED....Multi-Billions of Dollars in U.S. Military Aid...Egyptian Military....the Egyptian People rejoice and sing the praises of how the Egyptian Military is a Military of the People and that Morsi who a U.S. President backed has been removed.

All the while the Egyptian Military keeps receiving Billions in U.S. Aid and their Leadership sends their Egyptian Sons and Daughters to schools and colleges and Universities free of charge in the United States....and little by little becomes intrinsically connected with CENTCOM.

AboveAlpha

 

While our influence certainly helped build Egypt's military, it also is aiding the Islamists in Syria.

Our policies don't have any coherent goal of minimizing Islamism. What we do instead is simply aid whoever is beneficial to us at a given moment without much thought of the aftermath.

We removed Saddam, allowing Iran to manipulate the resulting government.

We armed the mujahideen, allowing Afghanistan to eventually develop into a Taliban run country.

We support Saudi Arabia even though the vast amounts of oil money that accumulate in that country are often used to export radical Islamism.

We were against Gaddafi, normalized relations with him, and then helped to oust him in favor of a rebel alliance closely connected to Al Quida.

In short, we spend half of our time doing things that hurt us later.

The only thing consistent about our foreign policy is that it leads to more sales of arms and contracting services.

 

I am not disputing this.

What I HAVE been saying all along is it doesn't matter what you or I or anyone else thinks about the realities here...a POLICY is in effect and that policy has the goal of the removal of the Assad Regime.

THIS WILL HAPPEN....it is simply a matter of time.

So instead of wasting a great deal of time and effort complaining and fighting such a policy...which is like swimming against a Rip Tide....time and effort would be better spend making certain a Democratic Government and Leadership is achieved in Syria.

Also there is absolutely no logic in the argument that people must back Assad to prevent the development of an Strict Islamic State in Syria.

AboveAlpha

 

What makes you so sure? I've been hearing for two years from foreign policy "experts" that the Assad regime had mere weeks to survive. As long as he has his Russian lifeline, he has a good chance of staying in power.

 

What happened is that the U.S. through it's PR support behind the removal of Assad but did not go into full Weapons Support Mode.

When Obama announced that the U.S. would supply the Syrian Rebels with Weapons the CIA and House and Senate Committee's responsible for the implementation of Covert American Support....WENT BULL S#!%!

The LAST thing anyone wanted was for the U.S. to be seen as supporting possible Sunni Extremists even though the number of such Extremists that have traveled to Syria to fight with the Rebels is small...it is growing and all efforts were being made to keep possible U.S./CIA support COVERT.

Now a U.S. President has stated what a policy would be publicly....the U.S. Congress rebuffed this....NOT because they don't want Assad removed....they rebuffed it because they wanted Assad removed via COVERT SUPPORT of the Syrian Rebels as the CIA was and is now supplying the Rebels with Russian Made weapons.

Unfortunately the older Russian Made equivalent of the older design U.S. Stinger....is ABSOLUTE OLD SOVIET CRAP!!!

In order for the Syrian Rebels to combat Assad's Air Force and Choppers....either U.S. Made Stingers need to be supplied or the newer Russian equivalent.

Now as much as the Russians would LOVE to make some cash selling newer Russian Made Shoulder Fired Anti-Aircraft Missiles to the CIA....the Russians are not going do this knowing if any of these Russian Weapons are confiscated by the Assad Regime....there will be all sorts of issues going on.

So....older Stingers will probably be supplied to the Rebels.

Once that happens the Rebels will be able to stop Assad's Close Air Support of his forces and the Rebels will quickly advance.

AboveAlpha

 

As a leftist I think that our stance on the situation in Egypt has been far from consistent. We supported Mubarak and funded him and trained his military because it served our narrowly defined national interest which actually didn't benefit that interest of the average American in the slightest. His overthrow was driven by a basic desire of the Egyptians to wrest their political freedom from a political class that didn't represent them. Morsi, despite his faults was legally elected under the new constitution and was overthrown by procedures that were not in the constitution. Hindsight shows how illegitimate and anti-democratic the so-called "majority" that overthrew him without using the methods of the constitution were.

Multiple American administrations have tried to play a very amateurish game of power politics in the national interest of preserving the status quo of middle eastern balance and therefore allowing the uninterrupted flow of oil. Once again this "national interest" does not benefit the average Egyptian, Arab, or American as the decade long rising price of gas indicates. As well as the dead, wounded people and bombed out decaying cities in the ME show. It's all about powerful wealthy classes manipulating things for their own interests while pretending to champion empty platitudes like "freedom" and "democracy" and "human rights". Unfortunately things have gotten so messed up due to our meddling that you can't unravel it with simplistic "good guy" "bad guy" labels but actually have to think the whole thing through. The American public is so sick of war and recession that they are starting to ask why we support dictatorships with money that could be better spent here. And many are realizing that characterization of an entire class of people (woman, gay, socialist, democrat, muslim, islamist) as "the enemy" is no way to go through life. Everyone has a story to tell.

I'm making a faith bet that you are not a troll posting a lead in for an attack on the left. You sound like you really want a dialog. If you look at my signature you will understand that I believe that many of the posters and possibly the site itself may be in in the business of setting the left and right at each others throats. I'm going to assume you're not part of that until you show me otherwise.

 

You are wrong about the U.S. support of Egypt being inconsistent.

We attempted multiple times in multiple meetings with Mubarak to get him to institute Democratic Reforms and told him if he didn't eventually place a time table upon Free Elections he would be looking at a rebellion and we would not interfere.

That is the point we stepped up aid to the Egyptian Military thus we backed a different horse.

AboveAlpha

 

The rebels have been getting MANPADs since last year. I'm not sure that's going to be decisive.

 

It's all about Assad's ability to provide Close Air Support for his forces.

Once he looses that ability....the Rebels will overwhelm Assad's Military.

AboveAlpha

 

"It's all about powerful wealthy classes manipulating things for their own interests while pretending to champion empty platitudes like "freedom" and "democracy" and "human rights". Unfortunately things have gotten so messed up due to our meddling that you can't unravel it with simplistic "good guy" "bad guy" labels but actually have to think the whole thing through. The American public is so sick of war and recession that they are starting to ask why we support dictatorships with money that could be better spent here."

Thats what I said.

 

Understand that we give the Palestinian's Billions in U.S. Aid....and groups like Hamas and Hezbollah might attack Israel but they are VERY CAREFUL not to do ANYTHING that might be considered an attack upon the U.S. or U.S. Interests.

If they did this the U.S. would cut off Palestinian Aid and that is something they do not want.

Islamic Jihad's activities is even monitored by Hamas and Hezbollah as they feel Islamic Jihad sometimes is a Loose Cannon that performs actions that do not benefit their cause.

As well both Hamas and Hezbollah realize if it wanted to...the U.S. Military could shut down the majority of arms and cash shipments sent to Syria from Iran that are used to fight Israel.

A few years back when Assad was allowing both Shiite and Sunni Insurgents to attack U.S. Forces in Iraq from the Syrian side of the boarder....and Assad was supplying the Shiite Madhi Army with arms and ammo as it attacked from Syria...and put up with the Sunni Insurgents also attacking the U.S. Troops in Iraq from Syria...the U.S. Military told Assad if he did not stop these groups attacking U.S. Forces from Syria....the U.S. Military would INVADE SYRIA and destroy these Insurgent Groups themselves.

The U.S. Military gave Assad 72 hours to stop these attacks or else.

Now Assad had been now and then helping stop such attacks but it was always the Sunni Insurgents that Assad's Military would attack....as Assad is Alawite...thus Shia or Shiite...Assad did NOTHING to stop the Shia Madhi Army attacking U.S. Forces from the Syrian side of the boarder....UNTIL Assad was given an ultimatum.

Now because of these attacks were responsible for the deaths of U.S. Servicemen....ASSAD has had a Bulls eye painted around his head by the U.S. Military which does not forgive or forget.

AboveAlpha

 

Well...it is a bit more complex than that.

Sure...a person could say...why are we fighting in the Middle East? Why should Americans have to die to support the Oil Barons?

Personally...I would not want a single one of my KIDS on my...Team...placed in a situation all for the sake of whether or not some Oil Company get's drilling contracts...but again...there is more to it than just that.

As of right now the United States and it's economy are dependent upon Foreign Oil. Advanced Energy Generation Tech. has been held back such as the whispered to exist the U.S. Military's R&D Divisions Low Temp. Micro-Fusion Reactor....as well as various new and efficient Solar Cells.

But until this tech is either released or made viable...we need oil.

Now since the U.S. Economy...all $17.7 Trillion of it....which is the Worlds Largest by far...#2 China is only $6 Trillion with 6 Times as many people as the U.S.....as the U.S. Economy goes so does the World Economy.

Without a stable flow of oil the economy will flounder.

Without a stable U.S. Economy...and thus without a stable World Economy....many cause and effect actions and reactions would throw the World into Chaos.

One example....the U.S. Government PAYS the U.S. Farmer NOT TO GROW too much food...because as it is now...the U.S. Farmers grow more food than the entire world put together.

Extra crops are purchased by the U.S. Government and this Corn, Wheat, Rye, Soy...etc...is sent around the world as FOOD AID....and this feeds over 1 Billion People.

In reality the U.S. Farmer feeds 50% of the people on Planet Earth and should some economic collapse occur that would cause a fluctuation in crop prices....over 1 Billion people could starve just because we didn't grow the extra food.

Now why wouldn't we grow this extra food? Well...if it cost a farmer more money in Gas to run a harvesting tractor or vehicle than the crops are worth because of some issue in the Middle East....that U.S. Farmer will not grow those extra crops.

This is just ONE SMALL ISSUE AND PART....of what the realities and stakes are in the Middle East.

AboveAlpha