'Knowing eveything' wouldn't be the same as pre-determining it - as in 'intending' this outcome, it'd be more like allowing the outcome to occur without interfering with it
If it's all predetermined, then why the questions? You made the inquiry; you tell us. God aint writing the questions (problems).
that puts the choice on 'us' (mankind - individually). I agree with that presupposed 'him'; i personally trust 'people'. (born good) It is why i say, 'truth wins' because no belief supercedes what is real, it's like an 'unveiling' to know what is true
The God of the Bible hates knowledge and freedom. God punishes Satan for questioning his order and for attempting to free Heaven from his reign. For this he is punished and sent to hell. And what was Adam and Eve's "sin" ? It was eating from the Tree of Knowledge. You know who else tends to hate it when people have knowledge and freedom ? DICTATORS !
if you actually read what i am saying.... this world is influenced by Satan... it is not heaven.... even Buddha referred to this world as a world of suffering..... as i stated in regards to eternity and living there....much better to die young and of natural causes than to gain sin in a sinful world.... it's just a thought....and you missed it.
you are ignoring the reality in order to make some arcane atheistic jab..... not even a well done one.... infantile....unworthy of debate....for it is a skewed comment made by a nonbeliever.
He wasn't such a bad bloke in the OT, was he? Heck, it's not even clear who he was.. Was the OT "Adversary" also supposed to be the serpent in the Garden? Or were those characters separate? I tend to think that the Garden's serpent was an older personification of the constellation Serpens, actually, but the Adversary of later books probably has no such sky analogue. The Adversary was to Yaweh as Randolph was to Mortimer... They got along fine, even if they debated things a bit. It wasn't the insane light vs dark, good vs evil model of the NT.. Where astrology re-entered the bible in the huge way, by the way, I think thanks to Persian influence.
A computer has an infinite number of A & B choices, you know exactly what choices it will make. How does the computers free will have any value? Its choices are already known and predetermined. God destroys free will. Free will destroys god. You can't have it both ways. - - - Updated - - - Continue ignoring logic and I am certain you can maintain your delusions.
More amusing is that Revelations was in reference to the Roman Empire, and second coming was to occur in the lifetimes of the disciples. Two things the American Taliban fails to understand. - - - Updated - - - The world is influenced by Satan by God's plan. Sooooooooo... why is Satan so bad? If the holocaust is God's plan, then it is good... right?
the problem with your interpretation of God is simply thus. we are living through the Divine Creation... have you ever read Stephen Hawkins theories on the time circle...it is so long it bends onto itself and so time is a circle.... we are just living the whole nightmare scenario...armageddon has already happened....you are posting in a time loop...
You're still confused about the difference between "allowing something to occur naturally" and "designing it to occur intentionally".
The funny thing is-is that I doubt Wolverine has ever suggested we weren't dealing with circular logic in regards to Theism.
Everything is intentionally designed if the God you claim to exist actually exists. You can't know everything that is going to happen to your creation and then claim it happened naturally because of how you created it. Fate and free will do not coexist.
Revelation is a fun book... Check out the beginning of chapter 12 of it for a rather interesting rendition of the Nativity The same basic astrological imagery is there, and a bit less abstract to boot. Instead of King Herod, you get an actual "dragon" (a.k.a. serpent), and rather than having this fabrication about trying to have a bunch of babies killed, it is physically situated right before the woman as she labors to give birth, ready to devour the child. What happens next? Well... 5 She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.” And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. 6 The woman fled into the wilderness to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days. But really, who are these characters? Jesus and Mary? Well, that's one answer. Another equally correct one is: This is the topic I want Christians to quit ignoring... Something I want EVERYONE to quit ignoring, in fact, because any discussion of the bible is, to me, quite pointless without addressing this. The gospels are a freaking astrological narrative based around the sun's zodiacal journey, Jesus being the sun. Who cares about any other aspect of it when this elephant in the room is being ignored?
You are confusing the fact the distinction is irrelevant if the outcome is the same. If everything you do is already known, then your free will does not actually exist because you cannot make a choice that is not already determined. Or at the very most it is an illusion. Either way, reality and logic do not lend your argument much value. - - - Updated - - - The ignore the fact that Christianity is not unique, quite a bit is borrowed from a multitude of sources.
You're not thinking big enough here. God knows that when he creates the first thing whatever that thing was that you and I end up having this conversation. If he tweeks it just a bit you and I might not exist. From your perspective in that world you may have the illusion of free will but the reality is from Gods perspective it already all happened making your free will non-existant.
Well yeah. Believers in this stuff are terribly naive.. Including about how lies and distortions could then (and can now) become truth very quickly, and just what life was like in ancient times before mass communication and a high literacy rate... And the Christ myth sprang up during a very nasty war for independence to boot! The Jewish temple was destroyed... Do modern Christians appreciate the significance of this? I seriously doubt it. Is it any wonder that the Christ narrative was cooked up to try and comfort people in the aftermath?
circle circle circle. If the outcome is all ready known "predetermined", how can your free will change it. Put simply, it can't. Or else I can make a different choice and change the intended outcome. IE "free will".
This it OT, but it is the 2nd time this die young thing comes up. Recently, parents were convicted to jail for praying for their 8 month old who died. Why? The child ended up where all christians hope.
We have not been condemned to hell, at least not yet even as scriptures say that the vast majority of us loved ones will end there. Satan has been sentenced yet God does not carry out his judgement. Ever wonder why? Further, is justice delayed not justice denied? Regards DL
Nice catch. If I were to believe the story of god and satan, I'd see satan as the good guy. A jealous being creates living things for his own amusement, and specifically commands them not to do something that will result in them gaining knowledge about the world they inhabit. Along comes another guy who talks them into taking this step - of learning about good and evil. Satan is the original teacher, and god is the original fascist. I know which one would be more worthy of worship.
Didn't you see the exorcist, Rosemary's Baby, The Omen, or Race with the Devil? OK Race with the Devil is a terrible smash'em up car movie from the 70's but it had naked people dancing around a fire sacrificing a virgin to Satan, and that my friend is a waste of perfectly good virgin.
