Muslims admit Jewish Temple was in Jerusalem

Discussion in 'Middle East' started by Ronstar, Sep 25, 2013.

  1. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    According to the Muslim authorities that controlled Jerusalem in 1925 and 1950, the Temple Mount was indeed the spot where the two Jewish Temples stood.

    https://www.templeinstitute.org/1925-wakf-temple-mount-guide.pdf

    page 4

    "The site is one of the oldest in the world. Its sanctity dates from the earliest (perhaps pre-historic) times. Its identity with site of Solomon's temple is beyond dispute."
    page 16

    "Leaving the Mosque of Al Aqsa by the front entrance, we turn to the left and proceed to the southeast corner of the Haram area where a staircase leads down into the vast subtaranean structures known as Solomon's Stables."

    "In the west wall of the chamber, a door opens into a staircase descending to Solomon's Stables. This is a vast subteranean chamber of roughly rectangular shape of which the chief feature is the imposing size of the piers. Of these there are 15 rows of varying size and height, supporting the vault on which rests the roof. Little is known for certain of the early history of the chanber itself. It dates probably as far as back as the construction of Solomon's Temple."



    this guide says the same thing.

    https://www.templeinstitute.org/1950-wakf-temple-mount-guide.pdf
     
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  2. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    No question.. It had been the city dump for 500 years..
     
  3. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    yes, but the Muslims admitted that thousands of years ago, the jewish temples stood there.
     
  4. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Banned

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    Jews do not need Muslim's approval.
    Muslims are related to Jerusalem as many times the name "Jerusalem" is mentioned in the Quran - ZERO.
     
  5. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Jerusalem had many, many names over its history.

    The Arabs called it al Quds.
     
  6. Marlowe

    Marlowe New Member

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    Quite right Margot , some dimwits also don't know that Moses-David +Solomon are believed to the Prophets by Muslims. : I knew that it was called "the Farthest Mosque "

    This extract from Yahoo :~ "Qur'an mentions about Jerusalem several times. for example:

    The fools (pagans, hypocrites, and Jews) among the people will say, "What has turned them (Muslims) from their Qiblah [prayer direction (towards jerusalem)] to which they were used to face in prayer." Say, (O Muhammad ) "To Allâh belong both, east and the west. He guides whom He wills to a Straight Way." (Al-Baqarah 2:142)

    And many times in hadiths. About if its' to be shared by a certain group of people, I don't know.

    And about requirement to visit... well it is not a requirement, but it has its rewards.
    Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "Do not set out on a journey except for three Mosques i.e. Al-Masjid-AI-Haram, the Mosque of Allah's Apostle , and the Mosque of Al-aqsa, (bayt-al-maqdis/Mosque of Jerusalem)." (bukhari and muslim)

    Narrated Abu Dhar:I said, "O Allah's Apostle! Which mosque was first built on the surface of the earth?" He said, "Al-Masjid-ul-,Haram (in Mecca)." I said, "Which was built next?" He replied "The mosque of Al-aqsa ( in Jerusalem) ." I said, "What was the period of construction between the two?" He said, "Forty years."


    ====

    Wiki says :

    "According to early Qur'anic interpreters and what is generally accepted as Islamic tradition, in 638 CE Umar, upon entering a conquered Jerusalem, consulted with Ka'ab al-Ahbar—a Jewish convert to Islam who came with him from Medina—as to where the best spot would be to build a mosque.

    Al-Ahbar suggested to him that it should be behind the Rock "... so that all of Jerusalem would be before you." Umar replied, "You correspond to Judaism!"

    Immediately after this conversation, Umar began to clean up the site—which was filled with trash and debris—with his cloak, and other Muslim followers imitated him until the site was clean.


    Umar then prayed at the spot where it was believed that Muhammad had prayed before his night journey, reciting the Qur'anic sura Sad. Thus, according to this tradition, Umar thereby reconsecrated the site as a mosque.

    ======

    Because of the holiness of Noble Sanctuary itself—being a place where David and Solomon had prayed—Umar constructed a small prayer house in the southern corner of its platform, taking care to avoid allowing the Rock to come between the mosque and the direction of Ka'aba so that Muslims would face only Mecca when they prayed


    You're right it was regarded as a a holy site + had several names long before the Hebrew /Apiru marauding tribes invaded that land. .

    Some years ago I slogged reading "Karen Armstrong's . "Jerusalem: One City, Three Faiths, I recall mention of Mircea Eliade who pioneered the study of sacred space pointed out that reverence for a holy place preceded all the speculation abt the nature of the world. It is found in all cultures and was a primordial religious conviction. The belief that some places were sacred and hence fit for human habitation, was not based on an intellectual investigation or on any metaphyical speculation into the the nature of the cosmos. Instead when men + women contemplate the world about them they were drawn irresistably to some locations which they experienced as radically different from others
    , its more likely to have been a Moabite/ Jebusite Holy space instead of , according to the myth - a threshing field - Shards of vases dated in reign of Pharoah Sesostrics 1878-1842 BC. mention 19 Canaanite cities one of which is RUSHALIMUM Syrian god was Shalem - Rushalimum have been translated "Shalem has founded."
    Shalem was the name of the god of dusk in the Canaanite religion

    ....
     
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  7. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Names of Jerusalem


    From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


    Jump to: navigation, search


    Names of Jerusalem refers to the multiple names by which the city of Jerusalem has been known and the etymology of the word in different languages. According to the Jewish Midrash, "Jerusalem has 70 names".[1] Lists have been compiled of 72 different Hebrew names for Jerusalem in Jewish scripture.[2]

    Today, Jerusalem is called Yerushalayim (Hebrew: יְרוּשָׁלַיִם) in Hebrew. This is a derivation of a much older name, recorded as early as in the Middle Bronze Age, which has however been repeatedly re-interpreted in folk etymology, notably in Biblical Greek, where the first element of the name came to be associated with hieros "holy". The most common name in Arabic is al-Quds (القدس), also meaning "The Holy [City]".

    continued

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_Jerusalem#Other_biblical_names
     
  8. Yetzerhara

    Yetzerhara Banned

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    Here we go again. You arm chair experts on Jerusalem who have never been there and think by exchanging wikepedia articles this makes you an expert on it never cease to amaze me.

    Yes you can cut and paste wikepedia and evidently you are proud of that but does it suggest you understand the complex conflict as to the right of access for Muslims, Jews, Christians and others?

    Back in 1948, when Israel declared itself a state after the UN abandon the Jews of Palestine when the Arab League of Nations declared a war to rid Palestine of all its Jews, the Arab league armies led by a British general and senior officers leading the Royal Jordanian Army, invaded the Old City and surrounding Jewish neighborhoods.

    Jordan a state unilaterally created by Britain in direct violation of its Legal of Nations mandate then gained control of the West Bank and part of Jerusalem (East Jerusalem) that was then occupied by Jordan for 19 years.

    When Jordan invaded Jerusalem they expelled the Jews forcefully from the Old City and other areas of Jerusalem en masse.

    Of course you present day wikepedia authorities on Jerusalem have no clue of this or what happened to these Jewish refugees.

    You also seem to selectively ignore that between the end of Israel's war of Independence in 1949, and then the six day war in 1967 at which time Israel took control of East Jerusalem and the West Bank, the Jordanian armed forces and its citizens desecrated Jewish sites. They would pull huge chunks of the Wailing Wall and other Jewish sites out and sell them as souvenirs. The soldiers would urinate and defecate on Jewish religious sites and laugh.

    During their period of occupation the Jordanians with full and open assistance and encouragement from Britain and the UNWRA, transferred Arabs (not necessarily Palestinians, anyone who self identified as an Arab and who were not necessarily displaced Palestinians from the war of independence with Israel) on to the Jewish-owned property, illegally seizing control of it.

    The Jordanians with full awareness of the UN and Britain destroyed Jewish property and religious sites such as the Hurva Synagogue and over 38,000 grave sutes in the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives.

    They destroyed hundreds of Jewish-owned homes, synagogues, and businesses.

    Will you read that in Wikepedia? Does that meet with your agenda?

    Tell me will wikepedia and your sudden found knowledge of Jerusalem make it known to you that the Arab neighborhoods right outside the Old City of Jerusalem cakked Sheikh Jarrah and Silwan which anti Zionists claim Jews are trying to illegally size were actually Jewish neighborhoods illegally seized by the Jordanian army from Jews?

    Does your expertise on Jerusalem tell you that Sheikh Jarrah was in fact two Jewish neighborhoods, Nahalat Shimon and Shimon HaTzadiq?

    Does your expertise tell you that Shimon HaTzadiq was legally purchased by Jews in 1876?

    Oh wait, being experts on Jerusalem you would know Nahalat Shimon was built by Sephardic and Yemenite Jews in 1891 and that Sheikh Jarrah was a Jewish neighborhood in the late 19th century and remained so up until 1948.

    You of course being experts on Jerusalem also know that in March of 1948, angry Arab mobs invaded this neighborhood and set the Jewish synagogues and houses on fire, forcing the residents to flee.

    Now of course you also knew in April of 1948 there was the Hadassah Convoy massacre, which saw another angry Arab mob kill 79 Jews.

    Of course being experts on Jerusalem you know Silwan, was the place where Yemenite Jews settled in 1882 and is also where King David built the original Jerusalem and that when Jordan took it over after 1948 they were so kind to burn it and the Old city's Jewish quarter down to the ground.

    Do me a favour. I know you seem all over one another with joy thinking you can understand the history of Jerusalem by reading wikepedia and selected pieces but there is more to the narrow bits and pieces you cut and paste-you can't sit in your rooms quoting wikepedia and thinking life begins and ends there.

    Get out. Get some sun on your faces. Try find out there is more to life then only what you think exists because you choose only to read certain bits and pieces on wikepedia.

    Jerusalem is a city that existed for Jews long before Christians or Muslims lived. Jerusalem was never the sole property of the Muslim peoples who lived in Palestine or who in fact are Muslims who flooded Palestinian and displaced Palestinians in the 1920's to 1940's because of British immigration policies that deliberately flooded the area with non Palestinian Muslims to prevent a Jewish state from forming.

    The complexity of the history of Jerusalem is that Christians proceeded Jews and then Muslims proceeded Christians. The complexity arises being the Muslim religion believes its rights to the land over-ride or supercede both Christian and Jewish rights.

    Interestingly while Israeli law permits access to Muslims to all religious sites, Muslims who are still allowed to control the sacred Mosque in Jerusalem do not allow Jews or Christians on land nearby to pray and Muslims have regularly stoned and attacked Christians, Jews or non Muslims and tourists who they feel trespass on Muslim sites.

    Israel went into Jerusalem because Jordan and Jordanians showed complete and utter contempt and disrespect for Jewish sites and to this day refuse to recognize Jewish rights to land which preceded the Muslim people who came to Palestine after these Jews.

    In today's revisionist narrative, Jews suddenly appeared but Muslims were always there. In fact Jews were always there and many others came in the 1800's and bought land long before Muslims from outside Palestine arrived displacing Muslim Palestinians.

    Much of the land in Jerusalem now is claimed by Christian churches. Each church claims to own the land where there church was.

    The state of Israel recognizes these Christian land titles and this is why the state of Israel pays a land tax to these churches since it built the Knesset and other government buildings on land owned by Christian churches.

    The revisionists on this forum who claim Zionism is discriminatory against other religions have no clue that it is precisely because Zionism does not and treats other religious rights to land equally it pays rent on this land and has allowed Muslims to control sites in Jerusalem even though those Muslims refuse access to Jews and Christians.
     
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  9. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    The American Magazine
    November, 1947

    Palestine is a small and very poor country, about the size of your state of Vermont. Its Arab population is only about 1,200,000. Already we have had forced on us, against our will, some 600,000 Zionist Jews. We are threatened with many hundreds of thousands more.

    Our position is so simple and natural that we are amazed it should even be questioned. It is exactly the same position you in America take in regard to the unhappy European Jews. You are sorry for them, but you do not want them in your country.

    Think for a moment: In the last 25 years we have had one third of our entire population forced upon us. In America that would be the equivalent of 45,000,000 complete strangers admitted to your country, over your violent protest, since 1921. How would you have reacted to that?

    http://www.kinghussein.gov.jo/kabd_eng.html
     
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  10. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Banned

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    They should join their Bedouin brothers in Jordan and take over what's theirs.
     
  11. Marlowe

    Marlowe New Member

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    Jews (+ So-called Jews -mamzers etc ) should remain in exile -

    live in peace amongst the nations be a "light unto nations" setting a good example. When Jews look upon others as they would have others look upon them..
    When Jews follow the teachings of .Rabbi, Hillel. What is hated unto you do not do to another, .

    When their god Yahwey forgive them for their evil deeds and their Maschiach come .

    Ehem ... (wink)
    ...
     
  12. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Jewish history is not the only history of the region.. There were Arabs, Greeks, Syrians, Cannanites and Egyptians as far back as the Torah stories..
     
  13. Marlowe

    Marlowe New Member

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    I've been twice - to the "Holy Land " - Saw a great deal


    Second time , a friend took me to a demonstration similar to this :



    [video=youtube;YA8JRErDsKo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YA8JRErDsKo[/video]



    .....
     
  14. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Banned

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    Very strange .. to attend that demonstration... they usually hit Arabs when they see one .. :hiding:

    - - - Updated - - -


    YES - BUT there were not Palestinians !!!!!!!!!
     
  15. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Sure they were.. They lived in Palestine NOT Poland or Russia or Germany or the Ukraine.
     
  16. DrewBedson

    DrewBedson Active Member

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    :roflol:
     
  17. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    No wonder you lived in Saudi Arabia where

    Blasphemy and apostasy willl get you the death Penalty and this is enforced by the 'Mutaween'

    On 3 September 1992 Sadiq 'Abdul-Karim Malallah was publicly beheaded in Al-Qatif in Saudi Arabia's Eastern Province after being convicted of apostasy and blasphemy. Sadiq Malallah, a Shi'a Muslim from Saudi Arabia, was arrested in April 1988 and charged with throwing stones at a police patrol. He was reportedly held in solitary confinement for long periods during his first months in detention and tortured prior to his first appearance before a judge in July 1988. The judge reportedly asked him to convert from Shi'a Islam to Sunni Wahhabi Islam, and allegedly promised him a lighter sentence if he complied. After he refused to do so, he was taken to al-Mabahith al-'Amma (General Intelligence) Prison in Dammam where he was held until April 1990. He was then transferred to al-Mabahith al-'Amma Prison in Riyadh, where he remained until the date of his execution. Sadiq Malallah is believed to have been involved in efforts to secure improved rights for Saudi Arabia's Shi'a Muslim minority.

    In 1994, Hadi Al-Mutif a teenager who was a Shi’a Ismaili Muslim from Najran in southwestern Saudi Arabia, made a remark that a court deemed blasphemous and was sentenced to death for apostasy. As of 2010, he was still in prison, had alleged physical abuse and mistreatment during his of incarceration, and had reportedly made numerous suicide attempts.

    In 2012, Saudi poet and journalist Hamza Kashgari became the subject of a major controversy after being accused of insulting Muslim prophet Mohammad in three short messages (tweets) published on the Twitter online social networking service. King Abdullah ordered that Kashgari be arrested "for crossing red lines and denigrating religious beliefs in God and His Prophet."

    So for 'Abdul-Karim Malallah who threw stones at a Police Patrol was beheaded... and the so called Arabs of Area A + B can throw tons of stones at a Police Patrol and this is called <bravery>... ISLAM MUST BE REFORMED!
     
  18. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    I explained and you keep bringing back the notions you have been programmed with....

    Never mind... 'Naturei Karta' is a sect pretending to be Jewish they are less than 10,000 world wide and they make a lot of noises and demonstrations... Frankly I would wish them to leave <Mea Shearim> in Jerusalem and move to the UK or the USA. (They are non Zionists and fifth columnists to boot...).
     
  19. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    So what? This isn't about their religious beliefs... its about the real history of Palestine and human decency.
     
  20. HBendor

    HBendor New Member

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    How do you equate some retrograded,. demented fellows on the Israeli dole to Palestinian/Israel history...
    I grew in Jerusalem and during my time they counted less than a few hundreds.
     
  21. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Did you write that from memory or do you have a link?

    - - - Updated - - -

    How old are you?
     
  22. snakestretcher

    snakestretcher Banned

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    Obviously breaking all records for longevity! Should I be calling Guinness?
     
  23. Margot2

    Margot2 Banned

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    Well the Haram al Sharif has stood for 1300 years.. much longer than either of the Jewish Temples. Plus I can't imagine they will go back to animal sacrifice..
     
  24. MGB ROADSTER

    MGB ROADSTER Banned

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    Let's not forget those 850000 poor Jews which YOU Arabs expelled from their homes between 1948 - 1973.
    The Jewish Nakba.
     
  25. MeshugeMikey

    MeshugeMikey New Member

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    Palestine = Jordan if its not spelled out that way on the CNN Maps....these people arent ever going to acknowledge that fact.
     
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