~ MOD ALERT ~ Why is Pro-Life seen as Anti-Woman?

I'll take that to mean you can't really provide adequate answers then .. so no problem.

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Irrelevant to the debate topic.

 

You brought it up in the first place.

How is it irrelevant?

 

Sigh .. the debate is about implied consent on risks taken. BTW it was CL who first raised the footballer analogy.

Whether someone or something dies when talking about medical care for injuries is irrelevant. Read the whole exchange of comments.

 

Because "Pro Lifers" oppose legislating to allow women have life saving terminations.

IDK as an irish woman that seems fairly anti my life, and therefor anti woman.

 

I did. Your argument revolves around this concept of abortion being a woman's "right" to control her own body.

However, the fetus isn't a part of the woman's body. It's a genetically separate and unique being.

 

nope, my argument revolves around the right to use deadly force in self defense to protect from, or cease injury.

 

Take it anyway you want to.

The final test isn't with me.

It's with the Supreme Court and I have no worries about that.

 

You almost had an argument there, almost then you took your gun and shot it down. The problem you were not able to extrapolate is that a payer still has all rights for remedies and is not consenting to anything that not intended as part of the game. When couples enjoy sex for its pleasure and they take the necessary precautions, then pregnancy in not the intended outcome and thus is not consented to. It is much like a car accident, when a driver takes all reasonable precautions, drives a well maintained and safe car in a safe and legal manner, that driver does not consent to an accident eve though we all know that they do happen.

 

A clump of cells do not constitute "murder".

States have different laws in regards to fetuses, and some may declare it as murder, but as far as Roe v Wade is concerned, a fetus is not a person.

No, it uses born as a requirement for rights granted to every single individual that is born in the United States.

And you have to be a citizen to be granted rights under the Constitution.

The Constitution does not define a fetus as a person either.

Yours.

Which is what?

If they didn't what?

What's a biological fact?

No, what?

Really what?

Phffft!

Did what have to be stipulated?

I'm glad, but what is it we agree on?

[/quote] yet most of you would support legislation that would force a raped woman to bear the child of the rapist.[/quote]That is the platform of the Republican party - no exceptions.

Not according to the Republican platform.

You do, but most conservatives don't.

Then why are you supporting the Republican platform?

It is part of the debate, will always be part of the debate. You cannot do away with abortion all together without addressing these points.

True, but you also put your trust on those methods that are supposed to prevent it. If they fail, you shouldn't be forced to go along with it just because you consented to have sex.

Only if you kill someone. If the gun goes off and nobody is hurt, there is no liability. But sex and guns are not the same. The Creator made people to want to have sex, it is our disposition to have sex, it is not our disposition to play with guns.

What, what?

Only if she was intending to get pregnant. If she wasn't, that is why there is the option of abortion.

Don't believe what?

If she was not intending to get pregnant, she doesn't, that is why there is the option of abortion.

You're talking about a situation where both are in agreement about having a child.

 

The term anti-woman should not be able to be used to describe pro-lifers.

I am not anti-woman....not at all.

This term should not be allowed. I would ask in fairness to both positions...that this thread and others that use this term be stricken.

If we can't use terms to describe what we believe represent our position...."those who want abortion legal"...should not be able to tell me or others...I am anti-woman...this is horrible.

 

Agreed.

 

Was that just a personal opinion?

According to the UVVA (linked to in my signature) and many other fetal homicide laws...

You are wrong about that.

Yet you just said that it can't be a murder.

Which is it?

The UVVA (a more recent Federal law) changes that.

Now we have a disparity for the Supreme Court to address.

The constitution only uses "birth" (born) as a requirement for 'citizenship.'

Not for personhood.

If your allegaltion were true, the opponents of the UVVA would have had not problem getting it overturned.

Instead, the SCOTUS has upheld the convictions under the UVVA now for nearly 10 years.

The supreme court has already ruled against that claim (see; Yick Wo vs Hopkins)

“The guarantees of the Fourteenth Amendment extend to all persons within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States, without regard to differences of race, or color, or of nationality.”

That's true.

Our laws (and sciences) do that.

 

So then take all the threads that refer to pro-lifers as anti-women off.

So close down all the threads where pro-choicers make pot shots at us....and all those that make pot shots against pro-choicers.

 

I would if I could, but I am not a mod. The best thing any of us who are not mods can do is use the report function.

Although if you read the original OP of this thread the poster is actually asking why people view pro-life as anti-woman and in his own words he argues against that notion.

 

This thread has gotten way off track. I really don't want to see this subject lost, so I'm giving everyone another chance to discuss the subject at hand. Please note that it isn't a discussion of what terms are allowed or whether or not abortion is acceptable. There are threads for things like that. This thread is to discuss why many people seem to believe that pro-lifers hate women. To remind people of the subject, here is the original post:

 

Some pro-lifers have a tendency to play the blame game a lot and will literally blame women for somehow 'getting themselves' pregnant. They often ignore the fact that it takes two to tango and that the getting pregnant part is something she has little control over when having sex. Sure she can choose to not have sex, but let's face reality here, people are going to have sex, they are going to have protected sex, unprotected sex, dirty sex, fun sex, bad sex, good sex, great sex, sometimes have sex, have sex a lot and so on and so forth. This is a fact of life. Your average adult person is going to want to have sex and will have it, these are totally natural biological urges and it is ok to act on them and not try to procreate at the same time.

So when pro-lifers argue that we should all just stop having sex (usually argue that women need to keep their legs closed, as if that isn't totally sexist) they are being extremely unreasonable and not realistic at all. It comes off as anti-woman as they only direct it towards women. I think I have only seen one pro-lifer on here equally direct his, "Don't have sex until you're ready to be a parent!" comments at both men and women, which I hope he doesn't mind if I mention his username, but I am positive that it is RPA1. He even goes so far as to warn men to take care with who they have sex with lest they become a father with someone they don't want to. He targets both men and women equally with this advice thus making it not solely about women as if they up and get themselves pregnant on their own.

Another way some lifers come across as anti-women and I am not saying all pro-lifers are like this, but I have met many here and elsewhere who are, is when we discuss what will happen if or when abortion is made illegal. It's a fact that many women will still seek abortions, but since they will be illegal they will be very dangerous. Many women will die from illegal abortions. I have actually seen, not sympathy from some lifers, but I have seen them scoff and laugh and say things like, "well they deserve what they get for trying to murder their baby!"

Not only is this extremely disrespectful to women who are only trying to exercise their reproductive rights but you have to think, how does it make their own crowd of post-abortive women feel? The ones who regret it and who are now pro-life? Should they have gotten what they deserved and died from a botched abortion? What kind of messed up crap is that? It's just comes across as very anti-woman and not even that, but very anti-life.

Aside from some instances like that, I have in fact met many pro-lifers who are extremely compassionate towards women and towards the unborn, equally. I disagree with their standpoint but when they do speak they speak from the heart and it's never out of anger or hatred but out of true sympathy and compassion. When I come across people like that, who don't try to say nasty, negative and hurtful things about women as a whole or demean pregnancy and childbirth as mere inconveniences, I already know they are not anti-women, they are not misogynists, they are just pro-life.

 

Why is this thread allowed to continue....the title does not represent the pro-life side. We are not anti-woman.

Would it be within the rules if I started one ....."Why is pro-choice seen as anti-children?"

 

You should do it. It would be fun to debate.

 

The blame game? The blame should go where? How about the woman...it's her body, it's her decision...it's her risk. What happens, happens on her watch and no one elses. Who got them pregnant? Excluding rape....the woman is in control, she can say yes or no. Reality has nothing to do with this...there are different realities. You can't blame reality for the actions of people. You use it as an excuse. Well sex feels good so....no one should be at fault. How about the guy who wants to have sex cause it feels good....he just happens to have AIDS and does not inform his partner. How about that reality?

Fact of life should also include taking responsibility for ones actions and doing what is right...making things right. That is what should happen in a society that cares about life. The "pro-want abortion legal so women can kill their babies...side" wants to take all responsibility from the woman and place the blame elsewhere. The woman can do no wrong...she is the victim...not the one she kills. Poor me....poor little me.

Is it also a biological urge to kill a living human being that has harmed no one? It is unnatural for a woman to want to kill her child. And today women are fed a lot of bunk. "it's not human, not a person, blob of tissue...etc."This is why even the "pro-want abortion legal so women can kill their babies...side" says abortion is a tough decision. If abortion was right....it would be a no-brainer...but the truth is the truth...and abortion kills a living human being in the womb. That is the focus they want to avoid.

WE differ on everything...from the intent of abortion, to what it is...to what it does...the morality aspect...everything.

I am NOT ANTI-WOMAN...and you should not be allowed to throw it my way. I am pro-woman, I am a woman. And I am pro-choice certain things. I just don't believe that killing, terminating, ending.....dissecting.......a living child in the womb is right...I do not want it legal.

And if abortion was once again illegal, it might make some women think before having sex. Is that a bad thing? "Gee I shouldn't have sex tonight I have no protection."
The stakes are raised...choices narrowed. I don't see this as a bad thing, you do. And I don't think abortion should be a reproductive right.

Sometimes the truth hurts. But the truth should still be shown. I would never make fun of a woman who had an abortion. But the fact is...and no one can change it....abortion kills a living human being. Now you can spin it anyway you want too but that is the truth. You can refer to the unborn as a blob, a nothing...but the fact is its a living human...no matter how small. Abortion kills.

You talk about what is disrespectful....I'll tell you what is disrespectful. To demean someone, ME who suffered from an abortion...who had real emotions and problems over it....to throw all my feelings aside and tell me I am basically nuts...that I am in the minority..because I happened to regret my abortion. How dare you or anyone else do that. You have no clue..no idea about abortion personally and you are here trying to tell me my feelings were wrong. The gall of some people.

My position changed as others do over issues. You say no one can change.

I do not hate women. I don't hate men. I don't hate Muslims for 9-11. Don't hate Germans because of the Holocaust. What you can't comprehend and get...is the idea that you can still like someone and hate their position. I work with pro-abortive women who regret their abortions. I have never been hateful or mean. That is something you just can't fathom. We all got pregnant on our own watch.....we took the risk....and I believe in taking responsibility and admitting guilt where guilt and blame lie.

I have spoken about my abortion from my heart and have gotten nothing but abuse and slams from the opposition. The pro-choice position is the hateful position....it is the one that kills. It is the one that is anti-life, children.

 

Well since all the threads I start end up getting the axe.....not sure if I want to take the trouble. You do it...I think your liked better than I am. LMAO

 

I don't really like making threads. I really only make them in Off-Topic and Member Chat.

By the way, do you have a problem with just calling us pro-choice, because I see you have replaced our given title with obnoxious things like, "pro-want abortion legal so women can kill their babies...side".

Is it really that hard to just call us pro-choice?

 

Okay. But please, pro-choicers, don't call us "anti-woman" or "religious fanatics" or "misogynists" or "sexists", or anything like that.

 

You are taking my post and making it personal. This is why threads keep getting derailed and posts keep getting reported and people keep getting banned.

Stop making it personal. I have seen plenty of other pro-lifers debate this subject without making it personal so I know it is possible.

 

Where have I done that? I have not called anyone here in this thread personally anti-woman. I am just explaining, as per the OP of the topic why some, not all, pro-lifers come across as anti-woman.