What common ground do modern liberals share with America's founding fathers?

The cons in this country are at war with the world and everyone not like them.

 

I am socially liberal, so I'll give it a go.
Freedom from gov't intrusions.
Equal opportunity for everyone.
Responsible gov't.

 

I addressed this at the beginning.

It absolutely KILLED some of the Founding Fathers to allow Slavery as the Southern States would not sign the Constitution without Slavery being allowed.

HOWEVER.....the F.F....allowed the Mechanisms existing in the U.S. Constitution to ban slavery....same with Women's Vote....and a whole lot of other things.

Now....for those members who are U.S. Citizens well....we take our Constitution for granted. But because of my...JOB....I travel all over the globe and I can tell you I have been in Grass Hut's were 3rd World Counties New Leadership asked us for a COPY of the U.S. Constitution which we have even downloaded to a printer from a Smart Phone....so that these countries...Founding Fathers.....had a template to use for writing their own Constitutions.

Granted....we had a bunch of 15 to 22 year old kids with AK's around the Hut....but it really isn't all that different than what happened here in original 13 colonies all those years ago.

AboveAlpha

 

We definitely had one of the better doctrines of government around back when we started, but at this point, a lot of countries have taken what we started with and improved on it.

Granted, we still have more freedom of speech than a lot of our peers, and very few other countries have a right to bear arms.

 

I can. Save for my ever so liberal government teacher, political ideology has no place in science, math, English, Spanish, French, Engineering, etc.We're not being indoctrinated

 

Because the founding fathers wanted to make sure their citizens were smart enough to keep the republic.

 

I have to admit it was my bad not to put a sarcastic smiley in my post. But I was being facetious. There was no federal funding or a clause implying such in the Big C.

The argument at the time Mr Johnson and his Dimwits decided to help fund public education, ( I was alive and remember it well ) was that the states were doing a poor job of standardizing education ( true in many respects ) and therefore it was the federal governments job to step in and do so. ( which was not true and, of course, non-constitutional. In fairness, every President since has wanted to be known as the Education President, and not one has been worth a tinker's damn.

 

The problem with education is we are just throwing money at a problem and hoping the problem will go away.

The vast majority of American's know the educational system needs to be fixed but what happens is every time we talk education we get the fringe elements of both the Right and Left side trying to get their agendas involved.

The Left want's more money for Teachers without any checks and balances and the Right is still pushing idiotic issues as far as allowing states to determine curriculum...as if in this day and age there is even a question about the realities of Evolution.

It's a mess.

AboveAlpha

 

Ah, misread it then. I thought you were refering the the Northwest Ordinance, requiring that 1/16 of all land sold had to have a school in it, one of the earliest forms of public education.

 

Yes, it is a mess, and primarily was exacerbated when Uncle Sugar put his nose into the mix.

Understand, though, education is designed for the lowest common denominator. The brightest kids are basically thrown into the mix with the very poorest of students, or those with emotional and medication problems, making the learning process tough for those that want to do well. A self motivated kid will still get a great education- the others, not so much.

Truthfully though, the Clowns of Foggy Bottom are the last people qualified to design programs for education. Money is constantly thrown at the problem, which usually is wasted. The states were and are the best people to set curriculum.

 

The problem with allowing states to set curriculum is that Bible Belt states would have our kids learning a variety of mythology and stupidities.

AboveAlpha

 

Sorry, simply not true. I grew up in a Bible Belt state, Texas, and religion was not part of the curriculum. Oh, you could attend Morning Watch voluntarily if you chose, but religion was taught at Church. Unless you consider letting the Jewish kids stay home from school on their holidays as pushing religion, it just wasn't there.

 

I wasn't referring to teaching Religion in Public Schools.

I was referring to there refusal to teach factual science such as Evolution in such schools in certain states.

AboveAlpha

 

AA, a small word here. I am a Christian, albeit a poor one. I was raised in a fundamental congregation. I have even heard the spiel about the Earth being only 6000 years old, yada, yada, yada. Well, I am not stupid, and I can easily ignore that fallacy by choice. I believe in Evolution, by whatever name it is called. All I need to know is 'In the Beginning, God Created the heavens and earth'. When even the beginning was, whatever form it took, and by what ever means The Great God Jehovah got me to this point, is totally immaterial to what I am taught and believe.

In the beginning. That is all I need to know. That is all I may ever know.

People get far too wrapped up in things that really mean very little when you stand before The Big Guy.

 

Ah so. My bad. I will just say this, even if true, it is still no concern of the general government. Constitutionally, government at the federal level has absolutely no reason to be involved in education. Emotionally, we may wring our hands, and don sack cloth and roll in ashes, but the general government still needs to keep its nose from where it is not authorized and/or wanted. Yes, without a doubt, we may be doing some kids a grave disservice, but that is still little excuse for government ( general ) to get involved.

 

If a kid is taught a "fact" - by all the adults in his life - from the time he is old enough to absorb information; and continues to be taught that "fact" all the way through school, he is less likely to ever objectively analyse the validity of that "fact".

Also, allowing religious dogma to be delivered to kids as young as kindergarten, in a school funded by tax dollars, is tantamount to establishing a state religion - which is forbidden by the Constitution.
Why do some people portray themselves as Constitutionalists while really only supporting one Amendment?

 

I have no quarrel with a family teaching faith to their little ones. I also have no quarrel with that family sending the little one to school where Christian values are taught. If you do, that is your problem. Not mine.

 

As much as I might find it "wrong" for someone to brainwash their children by allowing them to be exposed to a single narrow viewpoint during their formative years, this has little impact on me and is not what I have a major problem with.

I do have a major problem with people trying to impose religious dogma into the public (tax-payer funded) school system, which would happen more frequently in a state-run system.

 

I trust you would much rather have them brainwashed in the gulags we call public schools.

Liberal dogma being imposed though is alright?

 

Examples?

 

Since I am AGNOSTIC....as well as a person who RELIGIOUSLY uses the SCIENTIFIC METHOD....I cannot rule out the existence of a GOD....and any agnostic worth their own salt would not either.

But I do know that EVOLUTION IS A FACT....and a proven fact as well as it stopped being labeled a theory many years ago....except by those who are ignorant of the reality.

AboveAlpha

- - - Updated - - -

I would agree....but the moment the states start accepting Federal Funds for Education....it is a different story.

AboveAlpha

 

Certainly no argument there. The argument comes when the general government offers the bribes to the states- it should never happen to begin with.

 

But even still...although I support the sovereignty of the states....don't you think it is a disservice to the children of America to allow states to not teach evolution...a proven reality?

AboveAlpha

 

Liberal Americans are educated just like our founding Fathers. Unlike Republicans.

 

Why? Speaking for myself; it was not taught when I was in school. Admittedly that is a considerable heap of years ago, and it had little adverse affect on my life. The first teaching I had of it was in Freshman Biology class in college. Even then, I refused to accept it and still was not the worse for it. In actuality, in that same fundamental congregation I spoke of earlier, a preacher is the one that showed me how to accept it with the aforementioned premise I posted.

It continues to sit easy on my mind.

As for children being deprived, I personally think that to be a BS reaction. ( not necessarily directed at you, but more at the 'live and let live as long as you live like I want you to', crowd. )

Government was never intended to be involved in life except in those 19 authorized areas in which the Constitution gives them limited sovereignty. Other than those, the general government has usurped power.