Part 10 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

What if someone said that God was a Logical Feeling? Would everyone ignore them again?

 

If you say so.....I guess we should just dismiss the Council of Niccea and the Apocraphies.

 

Would they run away if someone said God was Feeling Logical....

 

Is evidence proof?
Why in sentence 1 you say its senseless to be talking about proofs and in the last sentence say it must be a leap of faith to deny based on no proof. It is a leap of faith either direction.

 

I see absolutely no evidence of God. I do agree that it takes a leap of faith to believe in a supernatural being that commands our universe and all in it.

As Sagan said "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".

There is no need for a leap of "faith" to not believe in God's existence. Does it take a leap of faith to not believe in the Olympic pantheon? Or Vallhala? No, because they do not exist either.

 

The Bible says:

"Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six."

 

What does this mean? If one has wisdom they are somehow in good with the beast?

 

The Book of Genesis speaks of people living hundreds of years. Do you see that as factual, metaphorical or something else? If you see it as anything other than factual then how do you know the story of the Resurrection is true? If you see it as metaphorical then how do you determine what is a metaphor and what is a fact? If you see it as something else please explain.

Sorry if the question has already been answered.

 

You claim the Flood story is a myth but yet you yourself have not provided any conclusive evidence to support your claim. All we get are denials, speculating, and opinions that have no factual basis.

There are an abundance of evidence that makes the Great Flood story reasonable to be true. But if you're in denial of them then that's your problem, we are under no obligation to prove anything to you.

God certainly didn't command us believers that we must prove things to the non-believers to make them believers.

Everyone must come to Him through faith. And it is through faith in Him that you can come to believe everything written in Scripture, from the Great Flood story, the Exodus story, the story of our Lord Savior Jesus Christ, and all the rest of them.

So forget above using the "P" word, for it is useless. You or anyone else for that matter will not prove/disprove anything written in Scripture.

 

It's obvious you have issues comprehending what you read. I did not say it takes a leap of faith to believe in God (a supernatural being). I said for the believer only a small step of faith is required, but for the non-believer it takes a leap of faith to deny that all the evidence is best explained by the existence of God.

Do I need to put it into other words for you to clearly understand what is meant by what I said?

That's the trouble with most of you non-believers, you seem to have a lot of trouble comprehending what you read, that's one reason why you are lost souls.

 

What time frame are you talking about? The bible never mentions anything about the time in years it took to repopulate the world, it never gave us a census that this is how many people were living in the world after so many years have passed since the Great Flood happened.

And so clearly you have no basis for your argument.

Again you are just expressing an opinion...a biased opinion I might add, a denial of what is written in Scripture.

 

Wrong again. According to bible experts, the flood would have been between 2400 - 2300 BC.

http://creation.com/the-date-of-noahs-flood
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genesis_flood_narrative
http://creation.com/the-date-of-noahs-flood

According to the myth there were 8 people left alive after the water receeded. In 4,500 years the earth would have been completely repopulated (7 billion or so)and all the human variations, (black brown, yellow, red, white)would have had to spring from those orginal 8AND had to migrate around the world.

Given the birth rate and infant mortality rates and child bearing years per female, I can say with some confidence, that such a repopulation is impossible. Humans are not rabbits.

And yes, I absolutely deny the "scriptures" as nothing more than myth.

Even the catholic church does not take the flood story literally, nor the adam and eve story with the talking snake, nor jonah, nor babel, etc etc. but view them as apocryphal.

 

Apparently you cannot comprehend that it does not take a leap of faith to not believe. Whether its unicorns or Odin or zombies, or your God.

Your belief in god is all about faith, which by definition is belief in something that cannot be proven with evidence.
I fail to see how if I dont' believe in something that has no evidence of existence can be described as faith.

Perhaps semantics is yet another science that escapes you.

 

Well, now... that is not quite accurate.

"faith (fth)
n.
1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief, trust."

I know it is only a one word difference but that one word is a descriptor of the type of evidence that belief is not dependent upon. Which would imply that there are other types of evidence that are not "material" in nature. My goodness. That would change everything regarding the 'evidence' that is being scrutinized.... it no longer has to be 'material' to be classified as 'evidence'.

 

Evidence that the flood story is myth. -

1. there is no geological evidence that it happened. Unlike the Iridium layer that can be detected all around the world that was deposited within the same time frame, there is no such global sedimentary layer in existence.

2. Hydrological studies have definitive proven that the amount of water needed to flood the entire world to a depth of 6 feet above the highest mountains (29.035ft) that there isn't remotely enought water on or in the earth to do so. Not even if it was a mere 10,000 feet/

3. Hydrological studies have also mathematically proven that given the amount of water as described and the timeframe within which it rose, massive tidal waves travelling at hundreds of miles per hour would be constantly sweeping around the world. You can't escape the realities of either the math or the science involved.

There is not an abundance of evidence or else you would have supplied it. And, you are under an obligation to prove it - you and yours are the ones making such extraordinary claims in the absence of submitting any proof other than the source of the myth itself.

Well at least I have gotten you to admit that you can't prove what is written in your scriptures is true.

 

http://www.agapebiblestudy.com/charts/Generations Adam-Moses.htm
Adam
lived 930 years
died 216 yrs. before the birth of Noah
Seth = Adam's 3rd son
lived 912 years
Seth knew Noah for 34 years before he died
Methuselah (4th great grandson of Seth)
lived 969 years
Methuselah knew Adam 243 years*
Methuselah knew Seth 355 years
Lemech (son of Methuselah)
lived 777 years (died before his father)
he is the father of Noah
died 5 years before the flood
Noah lived 950 years
Methuselah knew Noah 600 years and died the year of the flood
Talked with his father, Lemech 595 years
Shem son of Noah (father of all Semites)
lived 600 years
talked with Methuselah 98 years*
lived after the flood 502 years
Eber or ****r (great-grandson of Shem)
lived 464 years
knew both Noah and Shem
Terah (3 x great grandson of Eber)
lived 205 years
130 yrs old when Abraham is born
talked with both Noah and Shem
Abraham (Abram son of Terah)
lived 175 years
Abraham knew Shem son of Noah 150 years
Noah died 2 yrs. before Abraham was born
****r outlives Abraham by 4 years
Isaac (son of Abraham and Sarah)
lived 180 years
knew Shem (son of Noah) 50 years*
Jacob (called Israel and son of Isaac and father of the 12 tribes)
lived 147 years
knew Abraham 20 years
Levi (3rd oldest son of Israel – Jacob)
knew Isaac about 45 years*
knew Amran father of Moses who was his grandson*
great grandfather of Moses
Levi passed on the oral history to his grandson Amran*
Moses (son of Amran son of Kohath son of Levi)
Lived 120 years
brother of Aaron who knew their father approx. 65 years*
Moses receives the Oral Tradition from God and is commanded to write the first 5 books of the Old Testament.

And you are on record saying Moses died in 2488 after creation.

Moses died in the year 2488, just before the people crossed over into the Promised Land (Deut. 32:51). He completed writing the first five books of the Bible (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy) before he died. There is some dispute as to who physically wrote the last few verses of Deuteronomy: according to some, Moses wrote these last few verses from a vision of the future, but according to others, the last few verses were added by Joshua after Moses' death. In any case, these verses, like everything else in the Torah, were written by G-d, and the actual identity of the transcriber is not important.

 

doesn't change a thing, since you apparently are not aware of the meaning of material evidence.

material evidence:
Proof or testimony that has significant relationship with the facts or issues of a case or enquiry and can affect its conclusion or outcome

the "other kind of evidence" you infer is actually is immaterial evidence, i.e. that which is not germane to the issue at hand.

 

Gee.... thanks for clearing that up. You prove my point. Testimony is a form of evidence.

Are you suggesting then that personal 'testimony' is never germane to the issue at hand and that personal testimony is always immaterial? That would place your interpretation of the definition you supplied at peril. So, thank you for your testimony which is germane to the issue at hand and which is not immaterial.

 

You know.....here is the thing....I CAN actually provide the Mathematical numbers....thus numbers of approx. land existing species 5600 years ago divided by the amount of time and people it would take to round them up on all continents.....which to itself is a Physical and Mathematical Impossibility.....and on top of this even if you had 1 MILLION PEOPLE dedicated to the task of securing a Male and Female or if Asexual a few specimens...never mind Continent Jumping times involved and let's not even TALK ABOUT the incredible number of Nematodes and Bacteria and other Single Celled Organisms and etc.....

The plain FACT of the matter is that the NOAH'S ARCH STORY is JUST A STORY!!!!!!

IT IS PHYSICALLY AND MATHEMATICALLY AND GEOLOGICALLY IMPOSSIBLE.

If you choose to believe in it then that is your business....but do dot attempt to claim to ME that it is real.

The fact that you keep asking me for PROOF and the fact you keep ignoring the reality that I have been giving you PROOF all along that the Noah's Arch Story is just a STORY and the FACT you keep ignoring the proof I keep posting such as the number of existing land based Earth Species is so vast and so large in number and so widely distributed around the world that even if a group numbering 1 MILLION was to work at this for say 1000 years they STILL WOULD NOT HAVE COLLECTED 2 OF EVERY SPECIES AND AT LEAST 2 IN NUMBER OF ASEXUAL SPECIES EXISTING ON EARTH!!!!!!!!!

Never mind the FACT even if all Polar Ice on the planet melted this still would not cover the continents not even close to 25% covered by water.

I TIRE of trying to educate some here.

AboveAlpha

 

You haven't gotten me to admit I can't prove what is written in Scriptures. I have known that and said it many times before and way before I ever came across your lost soul. There are 10 threads of mine and I know I must have said it at least close to a dozen times in previous post.

You failed to mention that I have also said no one can disprove what is written in Scripture. So all we have left is faith. I have faith that the bible is true, you have faith the bible is not true.

My faith requires just a small step but your faith requires a leap of faith to deny that all the evidence is best explained by the existence of God.

 

Who is talking about unicorns or Odin or zombies?...certainly not me. We are talking about God and as I stated previously for the believer only a small step of faith is required, but for the non-believer it takes a leap of faith to deny that all the evidence is best explained by the existence of God.

 

Once again, it seems you have a limited command of semantics.

tes·ti·mo·ny (tst-mn)
n. pl. tes·ti·mo·nies
1.
a. A declaration by a witness under oath, as that given before a court or deliberative body.
b. All such declarations, spoken or written, offered in a legal case or deliberative hearing.
2. Evidence in support of a fact or assertion; proof.
3. A public declaration regarding a religious experience.
4.
a. The stone tablets inscribed with the Law of Moses.
b. The ark containing these tablets.

Personal testimony is not material evidence. Personal testimony is generally considered to be an open acknowledgment or a public profession of religious experience.

 

Even with all these alleged "facts" you have pointed out, you still have not shown any "PROOF" that compels my mind to accept what you say as 'true'. I cannot for the life of me, figure how someone as intelligent as you cannot grasp that primary definition of 'PROOF'. That in itself is where the impossibility comes into play. You cannot force someone to believe something that is contrary to their already held beliefs. That has been tested throughout history so many times it is unreal. People being killed for that which they believe. Regardless of whether others consider the belief foolish, irrational, insane, illogical, whatever... it makes no difference to the person who believes. I mean, just look at the story of Jesus.. public humiliation, beaten till his flesh was torn and ripped, nailed to a cross, .... I would say that is a man who believed what he was preaching...

Now back to your 'FACTS'. they are meaningless, as they do not compel my mind to accept them as 'true'.

 

yes you did actually.
You said "You or anyone else for that matter will not prove/disprove anything written in Scripture."

I presume you are included in that anyone else.

You keep repeating something that is blatantly and logically untrue. There is no need of faith to not believe in the existence of something where no physical empirical evidence can be submitted.

The only "proof" of the myths of the bible is the bible itself. I do agree that takes a leap of faith to accept it as truth.

As for my lost soul, it ain't lost because it doesn't exist.

My intellect exists within my brain, exactly the same place as god resides in yours. And when I die so will my intellect and every constituent atom of my body shall be returned to whence it came - the universe. The same can be said of you, except in your case, your god will also die with you. I know you don't believe that and its pointless to debate it.

I mention it, to demonstrate that like like you, I have a very well thought out cohesive personal philosophy of what my existence means personally, collectively and within our universe.

Mine is derived from what I have learned and experienced and is subject to change as new knowledge is presented.

Yours comes from a book and a ton of human generated dogma and appears inviolate regardless of new knowledge.

 

Purely subjective and 100% wrong.
And I rarely ever use 100% in anything to make a statement.
Jonsa says you require a 'leap' of faith, You say Jonsa requires the 'leap'. Who requires the biggest leap? It is why it's philosophy, eerrr, religion.