What Exactly Were Our Founding Fathers' Intention With The "Right To Bear Arms"???

I don't care. His ignorance makes this place one I won't come to anyway so long as they allow such stupidity to insult others in his strange manner, and that ruins the forum as far as I am concerned. I went back and clicked on report my own post to make sure the moderators knew what I said and why. I don't understand why the moderators don't act on the way he baits people with his aggressive form of ignorance.

 

This is the question: Why do you believe our Founding Fathers enumerated, keep and bear, instead of acquire and possess? I ask, simply because the terms, acquire and possess are used in State Constitutions regarding specifically, rights in private property.

 

they mean the same thing

 

Others have answered your questions clearly and correctly. You still insult the intelligence of those who answered you correctly and clearly then come back and ask the same questions over and over again. You do know that continuing to do the same thing over and over and expecting different results is a sign of insanity don't you? It doesn't matter if the terms used are acquire and possess or keep and bear, they both mean the same things. Specifically the Founding Fathers wrote in the language they chose to guarantee the right of individuals to keep and bear (or acquire and possess if you prefer) by writing the 2nd amendment to clearly say that in addition to a well regulated militia, private parties could keep and bear arms, both without infringement. Are you so stupid you don't understand it? Are you so stupid you won't accept that the SCOTUS decisions which clearly interpretated the 2nd amendment to be a personal right? Are you so stupid you don't recognize that the only exceptions the SCOTUS made was in the kind of arms and where they can be taken? Are you so stupid you can't read the language?

It is my contention that if you come back again and ask the same stupid questions it is absolute proof of your stupidity and insanity? You are an Fxxxing fool.

 

Our federal form of government is one of only limited powers, delegated by The People. Specific terms mean specific Things. If those Terms are not expressed in our Social Contract, it doesn't exist.

 

Our Founding Fathers wanted us to be able to protect our homes, our families, and respond to revolt/revolution when called up by Congress.

Did they want us to be armed so as to be able to choose on our own when & if & how to overthrow the govt? Im not sure.

But the fact is, this is 2014 and not 1787.

We all know that the Constitution was not sent down to us by God, and has many faults, such as the 3/5th Compromise and the failure to recognize voting as an unalienable right for all citizens.

Times changes and we must change with them.

 

Our Second Article of Amendment to our supreme law of the land, specifically enumerates otherwise:

 

Repeatedly proven false

 

Daniel is a troll. He does not come here to debate. He comes here to argue and press his point no matter how man times he is proved wrong. He could care less if anyone doesn't like his intransigence, he will keep it up. I don't know why the forum moderators won't correct him or ban him if he continues to insult everyone's intelligence. He is a distraction to decent people.

 

Now more than ever, we must remind ourselves that most of the signers were killed before the end of the war. But not ever revoked their signatures.
These are the precepts that establish our government. Who is to say that this government and any sub-government hasn't abused the people they have sworn to protect.
Since the Bill of Rights are individual in nature and design, a law cannot be passed that would restrict the body of the whole. Those laws are unconstitutional. it is possible to corrupt the very thing we are supposed to protect.
Man has not changed one whit in the past 4000 years. All the more reason that we hold these Rights dear.

 

There is no mystery.

All you have to do is google something like "founding fathers right to bear arms". Whether the 2nd was written poorly or not, its obvious the Founding Fathers wanted citizens to be able to own firearms. Not just the army, national guard, or police, but all citizens.

This should make it clear - if the Founders were alive today they would all be life members of the NRA.

 

Your issue is moot, because the specific terms in the constitution and the bill of rights tell us very succinctly that 1. We need a well regulated militia; 2. private persons have the right to keep and bear arms; and 3. Neither of those needs or rights shall be infringed. I am pretty sure at least 10 people have told you the same thing, then those same 10 people link you to a description of Washington DC v Heller and Chicago v McDonald, both of which have stated conclusively that the 2nd amendment does apply to individual persons, both on Federal Property and in other Cities and States. There is a provision which limits especially dangerous firearms such as full automatic rifles and pistols or sawed off shotguns. That same provision states that individual persons may not carry firearms to certain places such as schools or government buildings. There is nothing in either the constitution or the bill of rights any verbiage which can be interpreted by anyone not completely insane, to mean that individual persons do not have the right to keep (own/posses) and bear (carry) arms. You show your ignorance every time you come back with your same old cow crap. That xxxx comes floating out of your mouth and off of your keyboard in the same manner as it does off my friends downs syndrome daughter. Do you have downs syndrome?

 

Yes, yes, yes, Yes!

 

What did our Founding Fathers have to say about our right to keep and bear arms?

* James Madison: Americans have "the advantage of being armed" -- unlike the citizens of other countries where "the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms."

* Patrick Henry: "The great objective is that every man be armed. . . . Everyone who is able may have a gun."

* George Mason: "To disarm the people [is] the best and most effectual way to enslave them."

* Samuel Adams: "The Constitution shall never be construed . . . to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."

* Alexander Hamilton: "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."

* Richard Henry Lee: "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."

The Second Amendment to the United States Constitution states: "A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed." Polls show that up to 80% of the public believe citizens have a constitutional right to own guns.

If the First Amendment read "A free press being necessary to the security of a free state, Congress shall make no law respecting . . . the freedom of speech, or of the press," nobody would argue that free speech belongs only to newspapers. Likewise, they should not argue that the right to keep and bear arms belongs only to government agents.

So tells us Mr. DanielPalos, do you have the right to free speech? Can you answer that question without all of the typical blather?

 

Dude; that argument is a red herring. Rights in private property are already secured in State Constitutions with the express Terms; Acquire and Possess. And, not only that, there is also already existing federal precedent regarding rights in even controversial forms of private property and available via Due Process.

In any case, our Second Amendment enumerates not just Any militia of Individuals of the People who may keep and bear Arms; but, expressly enumerates, a well regulated militia as being That, which is Necessary to the security of a free State.

 

Danny Boy- You keep plucking at the single string on that same old harp, even though everyone on this board, as well as the Supreme Court understands what was meant. Maybe you do have Downs Syndrome.
Trying to converse with you is like talking to a bird. The bird looks at you, and sometimes responds, but he always says the same thing, and it doesn't make sense.

 

Repeatedly proven false

 

luckily we have the federalist papers and other writings that told us what the authors and signers of the constitution meant with the 2nd amendment straight from their mouth

Benjamin Franklin
“Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!”

George Mason, co-author of the Second Amendment
“I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them.” – Speech in the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 14, 1778

Richard Henry Lee
“A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves… and include all men capable of bearing arms. . . To preserve liberty it is essential that the whole body of people always possess arms… The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle.” – Letters From the Federal Farmer to the Republican, Letter XVIII, January 25, 1788

“(W)hereas, to preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them nor does it follow from this, that all promiscuously must go into actual service on every occasion. The mind that aims at a select militia, must be influenced by a truly anti-republican principle and when we see many men disposed to practice upon it, whenever they can prevail, no wonder true republicans are for carefully guarding against it.” – Federal Farmer, Anti-Federalist Letter, No.18, The Pennsylvania Gazette, February 20, 1788

“No free government was ever founded, or ever preserved its liberty, without uniting the characters of the citizen and soldier in those destined for the defense of the state…such area well-regulated militia, composed of the freeholders, citizen and husbandman, who take up arms to preserve their property, as individuals, and their rights as freemen.” – Richard Henry Lee, State Gazette (Charleston), September 8, 1788

Samuel Adams
“And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press, or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; or to raise standing armies, unless necessary for the defense of the United States, or of some one or more of them; or to prevent the people from petitioning, in a peaceable and orderly manner, the federal legislature, for a redress of grievances; or to subject the people to unreasonable searches and seizures of their persons, papers or possessions.” – Debates of the Massachusetts Convention of February 6, 1788; Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, 1788 (Pierce & Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)

George Washington
“At a time, when our lordly masters in Great Britain will be satisfied with nothing less than the deprivation of American freedom, it seems highly necessary that something should be done to avert the stroke, and maintain the liberty, which we have derived from our ancestors. But the manner of doing it, to answer the purpose effectually, is the point in question. That no man should scruple, or hesitate a moment, to use arms in defence of so valuable a blessing, on which all the good and evil of life depends, is clearly my opinion. Yet arms, I would beg leave to add, should be the last resource, the dernier resort. Addresses to the throne, and remonstrances to Parliament, we have already, it is said, proved the inefficacy of. How far, then, their attention to our rights and privileges is to be awakened or alarmed, by starving their trade and manufacturers, remains to be tried.” – Letter to George Mason, Apr. 5, 1769; The Writings of George Washington, collected and edited by Worthington Chauncey Ford (New York and London: G. P. Putnam’s Sons, 1889). Vol. III (1758-1775)

“It may be laid down, as a primary position, and the basis of our system, that every citizen who enjoys the protection of a free government, owes not only a proportion of his property, but even of his personal services to the defence of it, and consequently that the Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency.” – Sentiments on a Peace Establishment in a letter to Alexander Hamilton, May 2, 1783; The Writings of George Washington [1938], edited by John C. Fitzpatrick, Vol. 26, p. 289

“A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well-digested plan is requisite; and their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent on others for essential, particularly for military, supplies.” – Speech in the United States Congress, January 8, 1790; George Washington: A Collection, compiled and edited by W.B. Allen (Indianapolis: Liberty Fund, 198, Chapter 11

John Adams
“We are told: ‘It is a universal truth, that he that would excite a rebellion, is at heart as great a tyrant as ever wielded the iron rod of oppression.’ Be it so. We are not exciting a rebellion. Opposition, nay, open, avowed resistance by arms, against usurpation and lawless violence, is not rebellion by the law of God or the land. Resistance to lawful authority makes rebellion. … Remember the frank Veteran acknowledges, that “the word rebel is a convertible term.” – Novanglus Essays, No. V, 1774 – 1775; The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States: with a Life of the Author, Notes and Illustrations, by his Grandson Charles Francis Adams, Volume 4; (Boston: Little, Brown and Co., 1856), 10 volumes.

“To suppose arms in the hands of citizens may be used at individual discretion in private self defense, or by partial orders of towns, counties, or districts of a state, is to demolish every constitution, and lay the laws prostrate, so that liberty can be enjoyed by no man; it is a dissolution of the government.” – A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America, Chapter Third: Marchamont Nedham, Errors of Government and Rules of Policy, 1787; The Works of John Adams, Second President of the United States: with a Life of the Author, Notes and Illustrations, by his Grandson Charles Francis Adams, (Boston: Little, Brown and Co., 1856) 10 volumes, Volume 6

Thomas Jefferson
“False is the idea of utility that sacrifices a thousand real advantages for one imaginary or trifling inconvenience; that would take fire from men because it burns, and water because one may drown in it; that has no remedy for evils, except destruction. Laws that forbid the carrying of arms laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes.… Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they act rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.” – Quoting Cesare Beccaria, On Crimes and Punishment

“No freeman shall be debarred the use of arms [within his own lands].” – Proposed Constitution for Virginia – Fair Copy, Section IV: Rights, Private and Public, June 1776; The Works of Thomas Jefferson, Federal Edition, Editor: Paul Leicester Ford, (New York and London, G.P. Putnam’s Sons, 1904-5); Vol. 2

“A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball and others of that nature are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks.” – Letter to Peter Carr, 1785; The Letters of Thomas Jefferson: 1743-1826, Electronic Text Center of University of Virginia

“[W]hat country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms.” – Letter to William Stephens Smith, November 13, 1787; The Works of Thomas Jefferson, Federal Edition (New York and London, G.P. Putnam’s Sons, 1904-5) Vol. 5

“The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in all cases to which they think themselves competent, (as in electing their functionaries executive and legislative, and deciding by a jury of themselves, in all judiciary cases in which any fact is involved,) or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen ; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of the press.” – Letter to Justice John Cartwright, June 5, 1824; “The Writings of Thomas Jefferson,” Definitive Edition, Albert Bergh, editor (Washington, D. C.: Thomas Jefferson Memorial Assoc., 1904), Vol. XVI, p. 45

“We established however some, although not all its important principles. The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in all cases to which they think themselves competent, (as in electing their functionaries executive and legislative, and deciding by a jury of themselves, in all judiciary cases in which any fact is involved,) or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed; that they are entitled to freedom of person, freedom of religion, freedom of property, and freedom of the press.” – Letter to Major John Cartwright, Monticello, June 5, 1824; Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Albert Ellery Bergh, ed., 19 vol. (1905)

Thomas Paine
“The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms like laws discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The balance of power is the scale of peace. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside. And while a single nation refuses to lay them down, it is proper that all should keep them up. Horrid mischief would ensue were one half the world deprived of the use of them.” – Thoughts on Defensive War, 1775; The Writings of Thomas Paine, Collected and Edited by Moncure Daniel Conway (New York: G.P. Putnam’s Sons, 1894) Volume 1, Chapter XII

Patrick Henry
“O sir, we should have fine times, indeed, if, to punish tyrants, it were only sufficient to assemble the people! Your arms, wherewith you could defend yourselves, are gone; and you have no longer an aristocratical, no longer a democratical spirit. Did you ever read of any revolution in a nation, brought about by the punishment of those in power, inflicted by those who had no power at all?” – Speech in the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778; “Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution,” Jonathan Elliot, editor, vol. 3, pp. 50-53

“Are we at last brought to such humiliating and debasing degradation that we cannot be trusted with arms for our defense? Where is the difference between having our arms in possession and under our direction, and having them under the management of Congress? If our defense be the real object of having those arms, in whose hands can they be trusted with more propriety, or equal safety to us, as in our own hands?” – Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution, Jonathan Elliot, ed. 1836, vol. 3, p.168

“The great object is, that every man be armed … Every one who is able may have a gun.”– Debates in the Several State Conventions on Adoption of the Federal Constitution, Jonathan Elliot, ed. 1836, vol. 3, p. 386


it is perfectly clear what the intentions of the 2nd amendment was. It was so the citizenry was capable of protecting themselves from threats to themselves, family, property, rights, and liberty from foreign and domestic threats and including our government

 

Dude, you need to work on your habits and customs, merely to actually pay attention to the current argument.

Proven false by what?

 

No, they don't; or, those Terms would be interchangeable in any given Contract.

 

Nope. They mean the same thing.

 

Only bad boys who enjoy missing their turn at presenting some logic and reason, say that.

Why do you believe our Founding Fathers enumerated keep and bear instead of acquire and possess, in our Second Amendment?

 

Supreme Court precedent

 

What is Specifically enumerated as Necessary to the security of a free State?

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Yes, our Second Amendment is quite clear on what Thing is necessary to the security of a free State.

 

Only One Thing is specifically and deliberately enumerated as necessary to the security of a free State.

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Proven false by what?

In any case, our Second Amendment enumerates not just Any militia of Individuals of the People who may keep and bear Arms; but, expressly enumerates, a well regulated militia as being That, which is Necessary to the security of a free State.