Neither the AR nor the AK penetrate body armor

This may be news to the gun control advocates, but neither the AR nor the AK penetrate body armor. In fact, few rifles can.

The key point here is going to be, these weapons will not pierce the armor that was actually designed to stop these bullets. Many gun control advocates cry bloody murder at the notion of weapons piercing body armor, but they fail to understand that soft body armor is not designed to stop the bullets fire from these weapons. Failure of understanding is the short fall of a lowly gun control advocate as they are clueless, the gun control advocacy groups like the Brady Campaign simple lie about the capabilities of X gun and body armor. Information is free and there is no excuse. Flip through a Gails catalog and you will not soft body armor being advertised to stop "rifle ammunition". Even for the LevelIIA body armor.

So what is the issue if soft body armor is not designed to stop these bullets? Is those simply the cries of people that do not understand what they are talking about?

For an actual test of a ballistics plate vs. rifles, see this:
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot57.htm

 

I'm pretty sure a 7.62x39 can penetrate soft armor. At the very least it can penetrate class II soft armor. Few rifles can pen levels III-IV hard armor, but soft is a different story.

 

It will, however that is the point of the thread:

Soft body armor is not designed to stop such bullets.

 

Actually among other projects I would like to get my hands on some of those ceramic plates. One to see how well they stand up to a 12 gauge slug then one against a 12 gauge slug cast around a hardened steel dart. The dart could get some impressive penetration against ceramic. Against AR500 steel that's a different story though still probably worth testing.

 

It must be me but what is the point of the thread? Is it to set up a strawman?

But that may be unfair, it's probably just me. Anyway let me see if I have this straight.

Few rifles can fire bullets with sufficient velocity and force to defeat ballistic vests. That seems to be the first point. But that depends on the threat level of the ballistic vest doesn't it?

As far as I know there is a range of ballistic vests over various threat levels. I've seen people wearing soft, under-the-clothing ballistic vests. I've seen people wearing over-the-clothing ballistic vests and I've seen people wearing the latter with ceramic inserts front and back. Seems to me that the ceramic plate types would probably defeat most long weapons and the lower threat level types would probably defeat most handgun bullets - but not all of course.

Perhaps the OP is being overly simplistic rather than constructing a strawman?

 

how could an AR or AK penetrate anything?

they are merely firearms.

its their bullets that do the penetrating.

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what the OP really wants to say, is that the .223 and 7.62×39mm can't penetrate body armor.

 

Jokes on him ... bullets go right through those things.

 

Cant penetrate armor designed to defeat them. It will go right through a car door or level 3A body armor and down.

 

I used to use a pump-action shotgun and sometimes I loaded it with solid slugs.

 

Most available slugs wont penetrate anything a .223 or 5.56 cant. In fact shotgun slugs aren't recommended to stop a threat wearing even level 3A body armor, a .223 or 5.56 will zip right through any 3A bodyarmor with lethal force.. Shotgun slugs are great against soft targets but they kinda suck against even moderately armored targets.

 

Cruise through the Brady Campaign and VPC website, no strawman here.

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That is obvious. However, how many gun control advocates would actually understand what 5.56NATO and 7.62x39 mean?

They are ignorant, I must dumb things down.

 

the .223 cannot penetrate ANY forms of body armor?

bull(*)(*)(*)(*). Considering its still the primary round used by the US armed forces.

 

The armed forces our military engages of late are not armored... unless you count cloth and maybe hiding behind a goat.

 

Read the OP. The OP is in reference to body armor that is designed to stop X, Y, and Z.

The 5.56 will penetrate soft body armor, however, soft body armor is not designed to stop the 5.56 NATO.

 

They knock hell out of dead trees in the Outback though

 

But Wolverine-
The title of the thread says that AR/AK won't penetrate body armor, but your text says yes they do. I don't know what you're driving at.
The load I keep seeing called our current issue stuff (M-855, with the green tip, in 5.56) is made from a hardened steel core with a copper jacket for both 5.56 and 7.62 NATO. I had a guy in the cab awhile back who told me that he runs a lathe to make those steel cores. The steel feeds through the lathe from a spool, and both ends of the core are cut at basically the same time. Those fall into a tray, and when a batch has been cut, they go on for mass heat treatment for hardening.
Those are designed to penetrate the relatively low grade body armor that field troops wear. I guess it would also penetrate a goat.
Here's one source that some may want to check back on:
https://www.targetsportsusa.com/p-2378-federal-lake-city-ammo-556mm-m855-62-grain-green-tip-penetrator-1000-rounds-bulk-ammunition.aspx
I haven't read what the Russians are doing for a penetrator round for the 5.45x39.
(Take note, Ronstar, that replaced 7.62x39 several years ago, with the introduction of the AK-74, and is still their current caliber) I assume they're using something similar, but with a bi-metallic jacket instead.
The only body armor that can't be penetrated with American, Russian or Chinese .22 cal. military fodder is very heavy and/or expensive.

 

Clearly they're not wearing the right kind of body armor.

 

[video=youtube;gU9_4myBXew]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU9_4myBXew[/video]

If your gun isn't penetrating you're not throwing it hard enough.

 

I'll bet you that an armor piercing round or tactical nuclear weapon detonated nearby would render body armor useless

 

Thats cute.

Do you have anything to add?

 

Level IV hard armor is specifically designed to stop 30-06 armor piercing.

 

I have two M44's, two 1891/30's (going on three), and one M38. Should be picking up an authentic PU next month.

Not the one I am picking up, but I am too lazy me IMGUR account:

 

There are so many variants of mosins out there. I can't tell one from another to be honest.

 

I don't know what you guyz see in those nasty old things!
Please do keep in mind though that one of the requirements that the military made before accepting the 5.56 round was that it could penetrate an enemy helmet at 500 yards.

 

The three biggest variants of the Soviet rifles are:
1891/30 Rifle
M44 Carbine (with bayonet)
M38 Carbine (without bayonet)

Then there is the PU, the PE, Finnish models, Chinese, etc.