Part 10 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Mitt Ryan, Dec 10, 2013.

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  1. GraspingforPeace

    GraspingforPeace Well-Known Member

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    Denials about what? I rebutted your response, and this is all you can come up with? You used fallacious reasoning, responded by talking about something I wasn't even talking about, and made patently false statements about current events.
     
  2. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Well....since a persons Genetics will determine whether that person has a greater or lessor capacity for violence, death and destruction and if we are to assume a GOD exists would not such a GOD be responsible for the higher probabilities such a person has for violence which would be their NATURAL inclination?

    AboveAlpha
     
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  3. Mjolnir

    Mjolnir New Member

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    Don't bother, I tried this line of argument last year. I also tried to get him to see that you can't claim that the possibility of evil is required for free will, and then go ahead and claim that God both has free will and is incapable of doing evil. It's almost as though he isn't susceptible to rational argument.
     
  4. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Yes....I know....but on rare occasion as Wgabre has reminded me....sometimes someone might see the light of reality.

    AboveAlpha
     
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  5. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Religious fanatics weren't the ones inspired by God to write the Bible. God used as many as forty authors over a time-period of many centuries of about 1,200 years to write the sixty-six books of the Bible.

    Furthermore, there is no where in Scripture where it is written that the sun rotates around the earth, nor is it written that the earth was the center of the universe.

    But of course we know that the medieval Catholic Church maintained that the Bible taught geocentricity. Well they were wrong, they were wrong because of their gross misinterpretation and misapplication of certain specific verses in the Bible.

    To them the sun and planets revolved around the earth because man was the focus of God's creative act, and therefore the earth must be the center of God's creation.

    It never dawned on them that the presence of our material selves in the material universe is not as important to God as our immortal souls.

    Yes, I agree that these men of medieval times got it wrong but let's also point out that they were not the authors of the Bible, nor were they interpreting Scripture correctly in regards to the Bible teaching geocentricity, because the reality is the Bible was not teaching it.

    So we can still have absolute faith in the Bible, after all the Bible is the infallible Word of God!


    No, it doesn't sound crazy to me but it most certainly sounds like you copied a page out of the Holy Bible...lol

    Can't you come up with something more original?...lol
     
  6. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Not at all. I just would believe that for people who don't believe in God because of lack of evidence would not insert a word to describe said God that isn't used. Isn't that the deal with atheists? They don't believe something unless they see it? Well, I don't see where the bible uses the word you like to use.....hmmmm....I guess you only believe what is convenient to support whatever it is you believe. Thanks for the reveal.
     
  7. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Well let's just say you are the dominant one and I give you credit for a least admitting you do misinterpret. You and others are suffering from a condition called misinterprelitus...lol

    You need to take your time reading and not be so fast as to think you got the interpretation down. Try reading it a few times over, or ask questions to clarify.


    Do you mean like choose words that even a 3rd grader could understand?...lol...j/k

    Here is a very good suggestion, always have a dictionary near by when you're on line communicating on the PF.
     
  8. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    In my view the majority of the ones I have engaged in discussions on these threads of mine have shown a propensity of being dishonest. I guess it's just their natural inclination or tendency to be biased on anything to do with Almighty God and so they're not hesitant of being dishonest when the opportunity affords itself.

    They just hate the idea that God exists, for in their hearts they don't want there to be an Almighty God, a Creator who is the supreme ruler above everyone.
     
  9. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    What question is that? Please refresh my memory. I'm trying my best to answer all questions posed to me as well as responding to comments made by all my atheist friends.


    So when you do any kind of wrong what do you do to yourself as punishment since you claim you are not so forgiving?

    People you have hurt and lied to, do you go up to them and confess to them you lied and tell them you're very sorry for it?

    If you have stolen from people, do you feel so guilty that you return to them what you have stolen and then give them something more as a gesture to show you are genuinely sorry for what you did to them?

    If you're a married man and have cheated on your wife, did you feel so guilty that you couldn't bear it anymore and so you told your wife you cheated on her?

    If you had murdered someone in the past and had gotten away with it, did after while you felt so guilty that you went to the authorities to confess your murderous crime?


    Not if you believe you are only held accountable to yourself, then you don't have far more reason than I to be moral.

    If you truly believe you are only held accountable to yourself then what would keep you from engaging into all sorts of immoral behavior?

    I'm held accountable to the authorities of where I live and also because of my faith I am held accountable to God.

    I doubt very much that you will feel you have done any wrong since to you, you are your own judge of your actions and you are only accountable to yourself.

    In the Christian world view morals are objective, while I have heard atheists suggesting that morals are subjective.

    Are you one of them that feel that way?

    I believe someday we will all be judged by our Creator, Almighty God Himself. He is the final judge of everyone.
     
  10. Mjolnir

    Mjolnir New Member

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    Sadly, my ability to remember a year old question is no better than your own.

    I have to live with the guilt because I have an innate moral sense. If you have no innate moral sense, instead only behaving morally because you think God said so, then you receive no punishment at all because you believe that Jesus has already paid for your sins.

    Of course, don't you? Though generally speaking, I try to avoid hurting people in the first place.

    Do you find yourself in this situation a lot? As above, the best course of action is not to steal in the first place.

    I'm sorry, are you confessing crimes of your own here?

    Firstly, I didn't say I'm only held accountable to myself. There's also friends, family, and society at large to consider. Secondly, the only being you believe you're accountable to you also believe will forgive anything you do so long as you continue to believe. So yeah, I do have more reason to be moral.

    I'm not a sociopath. Humans have an innate moral sense that's evolved over millions of years. Immoral behavior isn't good for the survival of the species.

    You're held accountable to what you believe God wants, and that's really not saying much since faith can be twisted to justify pretty much anything.

    What part of innate moral sense don't you understand?

    Actually, morals in the Christian world are entirely subjective. You believe that morality is given by God. If God choose what morals to provide on his own, then they're simply his subjective opinion of what constitutes good behavior. In order for those morals to be objective, they would have had to exist independently of God as unbreakable laws of the meta-physical foundations of reality within which God, and everything else exists. This would imply that God is not all-powerful, as he wouldn't have any control over the objective morality.

    And I believe that if you have no innate moral sense, then you're a sociopath, and you should be in a psychiatric institution.
     
  11. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You know that for a fact? I used to believe in God. Now I'm an agnostic. I can find no evidence of a Creator. I don't hate the idea of God and neither do athiests. They simply do not accept or understand your faith in an invisible, divine being.
     
  12. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Sure, when many misinterpret your message it is everyone elses fault. Got it.


    Some how I don't think you are. You are very condescending.

    What for? It's not the words you use, it's the misguided way you use them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    LOL. It isn't what I believe. Somehow you can't get that. No worries.
     
  13. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Of course you don't give an example. As I see it, those that are atheist seem very honest.
    What does a heart have to do with a god or not?
    There are many supreme rulers of this earth. A simple google will find them.
     
  14. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Even though some people might say seeing is believing....we know that just seeing something is not definitive proof concerning if a GOD exists.

    Just think if thousands of years ago an advanced alien race came and helped Moses with food and water to cross the desert and ancient man saw such high technology would not ancient man consider these aliens as GOD?

    I am not an Atheist but it would seem it is YOU who only believes what is convenient to support whatever it is you believe.

    AboveAlpha
     
  15. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    So if that happened then atheists would be poo pooling the idea of aliens now? LOL! Probably so.

    I follow where the evidence leads. Atheists have to twist themselves in all sorts of ways the try and justify their "non belief". I think it is hilarious.
     
  16. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Well...I am not an Atheist so I wouldn't know.

    But I do follow the Scientific Method to determine realities.

    AboveAlpha
     
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  17. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    You follow then Scientific Method and you really require definite proof there is a God thru it? That is expecting a bit much isn't? Like the Elton John song goes "its like trying to get whisky from a bottle of wine."
     
  18. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    I simply look at the available data and the probabilities which determine whether something exists or not.

    AboveAlpha
     
  19. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    But that data can only come from our existence. How is that data supposed to show something that exists outside that realm?
     
  20. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    This is a cyclical argument as how can such an outside realm be known to exist without proof?

    It can't.

    AboveAlpha
     
  21. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Right now it looks excellent and very astute but I ripped it to shreds on pg. 39 #384 of this thread.

    Sometimes it's an illusion of how things appear at first.
     
  22. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    But doesn't science believe there are dimensions that exist outside of what we can detect?
     
  23. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    science doesn't 'believe', it deals in likelihoods. what is the likelihood that there are 'things' beyond our current ability to detect? quite good, probably. the likelihood any of it is in line with a book of fables written by middle eastern goat herders 2000 years ago? very (*)(*)(*)(*)ing low :)

    - - - Updated - - -

    'our existence' is all we have.

    and that is PLENTY, for most of us. more than we could hope to embrace in a hundred lifetimes.
     
  24. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    My friend WanRen never said he has given his blessings to adultery and slavery. You are deceivingly putting words in his mouth that he hasn't spoken. I don't see anywhere where he said adultery and slavery aren't an issue for the devout Christian...such dishonesty!...shame on you!

    First off, the union of Abraham and Hagar was not an adulterous affair. Abraham took Hagar as his 2nd wife, polygamy was acceptable during those days, thus no adultery was committed.

    Secondly you're not understanding the slavery during those times of the OT. We must investigate why slavery existed.

    The slavery that existed back then was vastly different from how we view it today. The most common cause was what we would call "bankruptcy" when someone overextended his credit and could not pay it off.

    They would sell off possessions and if that wasn't enough then members of the family and the person himself would be put into slavery to pay off the debt. Under the Israelite's system they could not be held in slavery for more than seven years. The reason family members were involved is because they benefited from the money loaned, so they had to help pay off the debt.

    When we look back at the slavery that was carried out in early America we see how bad it was because it wasn't connected to what a person did or did not do.

    They just snatched up defenseless African people and shipped them to America against their will and forced them into slavery. There were no limits or reasonable terms for ending a person's period of slavery. That was just a shameful past in American history.
     
  25. Mjolnir

    Mjolnir New Member

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    Surely if the stories described in the Bible are true, then the divine interacts with our realm all the time. If so, then there should be something there we can observe and measure. On the other hand, if the divine is entirely cut off from us, then there's no reason to consider it as it can have no bearing on our existence.
     
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