Part 10 of Post Your Tough Questions Regarding Christianity

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Mitt Ryan, Dec 10, 2013.

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  1. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Wrong, seems like or rather I should say, you are definitely not reading the same Bible that I am familiar with.

    Point out where in Scripture in the Bible that it is written adultery, slavery, rape, genocide are all acceptable?

    Apparently you failed, since you got only 1 out of 5 correct.

    Let the truth be told, sinful people who are anti-God are the ones who accept adultery, slavery, rape, genocide and oh let's not forget homosexuality. They see nothing wrong with those immoral behaviors.
     
  2. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    sinful people? don't you guys claim we're ALL sinful?
    what does 'anti god' mean?
    and please demonstrate how those who don't go in for religion 'accept' adultery, slavery, rape, and genocide. I won't bother including the last one as it doesn't involved the harm of innocents. we're talking heavy weight immorality here, not hairstyles or genital inclination.
     
  3. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    That's not true. I care and I agree with what Inc has said. I myself have also come across lies that the deceitful character thebrucebeat has spewed on these threads of mine.

    Look back a few posts on this thread where I exposed the deceitful way thebrucebeat smears another poster by saying things the other poster never said...such dishonesty I tell ya!
     
  4. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Good point, well said Inc!...hahaha! I agree, gabriel1 definitely cares, otherwise why did he respond?...lol

    And yes such an illogical operation indeed!...lol
     
  5. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Oh so you are acknowledging that Jesus Christ existed but are in denial that He had resurrected from the dead.

    Most non-believers don't even go that far, they claim that Jesus never existed.

    Well His resurrection was what started the religion, if it wasn't for His resurrection there would not have been a Christian religion.

    I believe the first-hand witness accounts of His resurrection, therefore I disagree with you and proclaim that our Lord Savior Jesus Christ lives on!

    Now don't get silly and use the "P" word against me...lol

    I have faith in what I believe!
     
  6. Flintc

    Flintc New Member

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    so far, so good.

    On the contrary, it's exactly the same. No evidence at all.

    But the bible is FICTION. It is not "evidence" of anything except what some people believed when they wrote it. Nothing more.

    No, we really don't. We have third-hand (and worse) claims of such a person, written by and ONLY by people who had powerful reasons for inventing him. And even those don't come close to agreeing.

    We have no such thing! Even the gospels are anonymous, written at least three generations after Jesus is supposed to have lived, not written by witnesses and not citing any witnesses. And written a thousand miles away and in a different language. Now, you may believe all this fiction, and you probably can't help it. If you went back in a time machine and saw with your own eyes that nothing of the sort ever occurred, you would disbelieve your eyes. You can't help it.

    There are good archaeological reasons to find much of the historical material in the bible to be accurate. But that doesn't make the supernatural parts accurate. MOST fiction is based on real settings and events.

    And so this is also nonsense. There is zero evidence that any gods exist. ZERO. Writing a book that says gods exist doesn't create them. What you're doing is saying you know gods exist because you have a book that says so, and you know the book is correct because the gods exist!

    Since there are no gods, and no evidence of any gods, and ALL you have is your imagination backed by fiction, why should you be believed? Based on the substance of your claims, believing anything you say about this would be idiocy.

    You gave no evidence. You made dubious claims not supported by anything resembling evidence, which just happened to reflect your imaginary beliefs, and called it evidence. And your claims were themselves known to be inaccurate. You haven't even memorized your own fiction very well. Did you READ the bible?
     
  7. Flintc

    Flintc New Member

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    The ONLY evidence for the existence of Jesus the person, is in some tales not corroborated by ANY external evidence. And many of those tales are so astounding (like Herod ordering the deaths of every infant in Jerusalem, and no other writer even NOTICED this!) that the lack of any other source condemns them.

    The "evidence" he existed would be laughed out of any modern court of law. Imagine tales told generations later, third-hand or worse, by people with vested interests, whose writing can't be verified in any way.

    No, if it were not for STORIES of him and his resurrection. You are confusing the fiction with reality. The stories are real stories, the religion is a real religion. The SUBJECT of the stories, however, is highly likely to exist only in the imaginations of the authors.

    And where did you get those? The bible includes a total of ZERO first-hand accounts. Zero.

    Believe what you wish, but don't expect anyone who doesn't believe to be tricked.

    Too bad you don't have any evidence.
     
  8. MrConservative

    MrConservative Well-Known Member

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    That's not necessarily true. Many believe he did exist as there is evidence to suggest he did. Since they are non-believers, believing he was a man and nothing more would be consistent with their disbelief.
     
  9. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Judges 21: 10- 24 : So they sent twelve thousand warriors to Jabesh-gilead with orders to kill everyone there, including women and children. "This is what you are to do," they said. "Completely destroy all the males and every woman who is not a virgin." Among the residents of Jabesh-gilead they found four hundred young virgins who had never slept with a man, and they brought them to the camp at Shiloh in the land of Canaan. .......

    Numbers 31: 7-18 :

    Deuteronomy 20: 10-14:



    As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.
     
  10. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    First of all you are confusing the word Dimensions with Divergent Alternate Universal States.

    A Dimension is just a term of Geometry but due to this words Hollywood use it has made some people believe using the term DIFFERENT DIMENSION means Alternate Universal State....it does not.

    The Dimensions such as Length, Width, Depth, Time.....these are just 4 Dimensions that exist within our at MINIMUM Universal Space-Time Dimensionality of 10 or 11-D and it just may be even more.

    Still we know that because Quantum Particle/Wave Forms such as Photons...LIGHT and Electrons...Electricity....existing as BOTH Particle and Wave obtain FREQUENCY....and because of this we can see and detect various COLOR as well as such things within the Electromagnetic Scale exist as X-Ray, IR-Light, UV-Light, Radio Waves....etc....as at least minimum 10-D is required for you and I to tune in our favorite Radio Station Frequency.

    Now all this was first supported by MATHEMATICS before we even developed Radio and TV.....and as well there are Mathematics that show us that QUANTUM MECHANICS and it's behavior gives us a high probability that INFINITE DIVERGENT UNIVERSAL STATES exist as well as Infinite Baseline Universal Groups.

    Again...this has data and the Mathematics dictates a very high probability that there are Infinite Divergent Universal States existing and as well there are Infinite Versions of you and me.

    Now....all these Infinite Universal States belong to JUST ONE BASELINE UNIVERSAL STATE of which our Universal Version is a part of or a branch of....but even still not only does there likely exist Infinite Versions of our Universal Baseline Reality there is also Infinite Differing Baseline Universal Realities each with it's own set of different Natural Physical Laws and Infinite Divergent States of which we and our Universe and it's Baseline have nothing in common with.

    Again....all this has data and Mathematical Proofs to back it up even though not enough proof as yet to call it a fact ......BUT.....there has NEVER EVER been a case in HISTORY where the MATH said something existed and it didn't.

    AboveAlpha
     
  11. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Let me first take the issue of rape and explain to you why you are wrong in your view that the act of rape appears to be acceptable in the Bible.

    The act of raping has always been a sinful act, it is depicted as a gross violation of God's design for the treatment of the human body.

    The passage of Deuteronomy 22:13-29 spoke directly against forcing a woman into a sexual encounter against her will, or what we know today as rape. This command was meant to protect women and to protect the nation of Israel from committing sinful actions.

    Any man who raped a woman was to be killed by stoning under the punishment of the Mosaic Law. "But if the man meets the engaged woman out in the country, and he rapes her, then only the man must die. Do nothing to the young woman, she has committed no crime worthy of death. She is as innocent as a murder victim." Deuteronomy 22:25-26 NLT

    Though the Mosaic Law was for the nation of Israel during the time of Moses, the principle is clear that rape was sinful in the eyes of God and led to the most extreme punishment possible which was death for the rapist.

    Critics such as yourself of the Bible are quick to point to Numbers 31 (and other similar passages) in which the Israelites were allowed to take female captives from nations they conquered. Critics make the accusation that this is an example of the Bible condoning, or even promoting, rape. However, the passage says nothing about raping the captive women. It is wrong to assume that the captive women were to be raped.

    Again Deuteronomy 22:25-27 condemns rape, even advocating the death penalty for perpetrators of rape. In the Numbers 31 passage the soldiers were commanded to purify themselves and their captives (see verse 19).

    Rape would have violated this command (see Lev 15:16-1 The women who were taken captive are never referred to as sexual objects. Did the captive women likely eventually marry amongst the Israelites? Yes. Is there any indication that rape or sex slavery was forced upon the women? Absolutely not.
     
  12. crank

    crank Well-Known Member

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    that's right, MR, they just wanted the women to do a little decorating and to make them breakfast.

    - - - Updated - - -

    further, this crapp about the nation of Israel. why would a perfect and 'bigger than the universe' god aim his tractor beams so tightly at one small group?
     
  13. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I don't often agree with you.

    Perhaps you could have pointed out that captive virgin women who had lost all their family would have been helpless and lonely, with no one to support them. In bringing them into the nation as wives for themselves or their sons etc the women would have been secure. Of course it would have been better never to have wiped out their families in the first case, but that happened, and still happens today. Also it was a way on introducing new blood into an introverted nation or tribe.
    When Amnon raped hs sister Tamar, David was furious but did nothing about it. Absalom, Tamars brother did. He had Amnon killed. That was the start of David's problems. Not dealing with the situation led to Absalom 'murdering' |Amnon and the split between David and Absalom. And finally Absaloms death.
     
  14. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    No one can prove/disprove the resurrection. It's a matter of faith. I have faith to believe the resurrection is true because belief in the Resurrection of Jesus is necessary for salvation.

    "If you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."---Romans 10:9 NKJV

    If you have faith to believe it did not happen so be it. Is there anything anyone can say to you to convince you otherwise?
     
  15. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    Critics of the Bible like to believe it is, but the answer is no. One can't find any striking similarities. So we can be rest assured that the Holy Bible in its entirety is the Word of God.
     
  16. Slyhunter

    Slyhunter New Member Past Donor

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    I once had faith in Santa Clause. You see where that got me ...
    I don't have faith to believe it did not happen. I don't have faith. Prove to me it did happen and I'll believe. You don't prove a negative.
     
  17. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    No, I don't see where that got you. I have no idea who you are or your circumstances.


    It takes faith either way in what one believes, you just don't realize it. I suggest you look up the definition of the word "faith".

    And sorry I'm not here to prove anything and furthermore I am under no obligation whatsoever to do so.

    Lastly, like I said in my previous post to you, "If you have faith to believe it did not happen so be it. Is there anything anyone can say to you to convince you otherwise?"
     
  18. Slyhunter

    Slyhunter New Member Past Donor

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    I can't have faith to believe it did not happen when I don't have faith at all.
     
  19. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    The prophecy refers to the birth of Jesus in Matthew 1:23 NASB, "Behold, the virgin shall be with child and shall bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel," which translated means, "God with us."

    This does not mean, however, that the Messiah’s name would actually be Immanuel (Emmanuel). There are many names given to Jesus using the phrase "He shall be called," both in the Old and New Testaments. This was a common way of saying that people would refer to Him in these various ways.

    Isaiah prophesied of the Messiah, "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace."--- Isaiah 9:6 KJV

    None of these titles was Jesus' actual name, but these were descriptions people would use to refer to Him forever.


    Joseph was Jesus' step-father not foster father and it does count as I shall explain. What many people overlook is that Joseph was the biological son of Jacob (Matthew 1:16), who was a biological descendant of Solomon.

    However, Heli (Luke 3:23) actually was the father-in-law of Joseph. That is, Heli was Mary's father, and he was a biological descendant of Nathan (Luke 3:31), who was Solomon's brother (1 Chronicles 3:5). It is believed that Mary had no brothers. Therefore, Mary's husband Joseph, who was Heli's son-in-law, became Heli's legal son to continue Heli's family line.

    In the culture of ancient Israel, inheritance from father to son was so significant and essential that, for all legal intents and purposes, Jesus was Joseph's son, even if He was not Joseph's biological son. Thus, Jesus can be recognized as "Solomon's son" through Jesus' step-father, Joseph. So Jesus could claim lineage from David.


    That's true like I explained above.


    Yes, that's also true as I explained above.


    So if anything is proved, you would still be skeptical regardless of who is doing the proving? Critics who claim they have proved something to be false regarding the Bible, would you think they are liars?

    Or are you biased and only believe that when Christian apologists prove something they are liars because you happen to be a non-believer?


    Do you know for sure that the Bible is a collection of fairytales?...no need to answer cause I already know the answer.

    Illogical thinking comes from not following the commandments that God gave us as written in the Holy Bible. It leads to human miseries and strife.

    The Bible expresses truth and its messages are there to help us live the righteous way.


    Well blame that on the sinful nature of mankind. Look at all the wars in history that the human race has been involved in, I'd say we have only ourselves to blame.

    This evil nature of man hindered us from making rapid advances in science and so it took us thousand of years to advance to where we are today.

    So thank God for the advances in science we enjoy today. We have dramatically improved our lives as compared to our ancestors' lives of long ago.
     
  20. AboveAlpha

    AboveAlpha Well-Known Member

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    Actually there were a few major events that caused Humanity to lose the relatively high level of science, mathematics and technology it had between the Greek and the fall of the Roman empire.

    One of these events was the burning of the Library at Alexandria.

    Another event was the practice of labeling anyone who excelled in fields of Science or Mathematics a Heretic by the Christian Leadership.

    A third which was in combination of the second above listed events was the beginning of the Dark Ages which was an actual Volcanic Event as a massive Volcanic eruption in what is now Indonesia darkened the sky's all over the Earth and this caused a drop in temps and due to plant and animal death caused mass Human starvation.

    A fourth was the PLAGUE which due to previous losses in knowledge and especially by the Christian Church leadership forbidding Medical Science practices and advocating PRAYER to cure those effected.

    AboveAlpha
     
  21. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    I define it as written in Scripture, "Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son."---1 John 2:22 NASB

    "and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world."---1 John 4:3 NASB

    In 1 John 2:18 the term implies a particular man who, before the Second Coming, will persecute the Church with a ferocity never before experienced.

    "Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour."---1 John 2:18 NASB

    There is really no formal definition, so we are free to hold that the anti-Christ was or will be an individual, a group of people or a wicked era.
     
  22. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    They do not believe He is the Son of God, to them He was just a prophet and so they will not accept Jesus as their Lord Savior as Christians do.
     
  23. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    I have absolute faith that my God is the one and only true God, while I have no faith at all that your god is true.

    Simply because you have made up your god, the way you want your god to be. You have no written source on who your god is for reference, you have nothing to present, no history, no literature, no nothing. How is anyone going to believe your god?...just by what you say?...lol


    That's very convenient since you have made your god up...lol What will he do if you're a bad person and don't believe in him? Is he just going to shrug that off and not care that you continually commit heinous crimes against other people who are basically good people?

    And we know there are lots of people who really do some very bad bad things to other people.


    Who wouldn't want to worship the Creator of the universe and everything else that exists? He is worthy to be worshipped for all eternity. We are not just talking about some famous Hollywood star or some famous star athlete here, we are talking about the Creator!

    As for the eternal punishment, this punishment is for satan and his demons, but of course people too will be punished for their sins and rightfully so but not necessarily for eternity.

    There is belief among some Christians that non-believers will eventually get what they believe in, in that when they die they will cease to exist and have no awareness or consciousness and be totally non-existent for all eternity.

    But this will only happen after God punishes these people for whatever time God believes is sufficient, then He will just put you all out of your misery and let you die a permanent death as if you never ever existed before. It is what you believe or wish for that is what you get. There will be a Judgment Day for all these non-believers.

    While we believers who repent our sins, accept Jesus Christ as our Lord Savior, we get to worship & praise & love God for all eternity in His Kingdom of Heaven, we will get what we want, eternal life with our Lord Master and all the rest of the people who are saved and live happily-ever-after! amen to that bruthaaa!


    If the "child" never calls the "father" father, is he really the father's child?

    Here it shows your complete misunderstanding of what the Bible is trying to say. God never puts His children to hell. He puts those who are not His children to hell. His children's names are clearly written in the Book of Life.
     
  24. Mitt Ryan

    Mitt Ryan Well-Known Member

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    To name a few The New American Bible (NAB), The New American Standard Bible (NASB), The New International Version of the Bible (NIV), and The New Revised Standard Version Bible (NRSV).

    These newer versions are translated from the oldest and best ancient Hebrew and Greek manuscripts, rather than from the King James version.

    Even though the newer translations are believed to be more accurate than the KJV, there are minor differences between them and so in this respect no significant changes of belief or interpretation would result from the many minor corrections.
     
  25. trevorw2539

    trevorw2539 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Don't believe everything you read. There are problems with the genealogies. Why does Matthew leave out several names before the exile? Was Zerubbabel the son or nephew of Shealtiel? Both views are recorded in the Hebrew Scriptures. If he was son it would have been through a Levirite marriage and he would be the son of Shealtiel by birth, but recorded as the son of Pedaiah. Jewish genealogy laws were complicated and I don't intend wasting time and space trying to explain Bible contradictions.
     
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