Expected Israeli ground attack begins

ohh much much more than that don't worry about IDF's abillities OK?

 

Israel is escalating the situation as a pretext to seize the $4B in natural gas reserves in Gaza. This "new reality" is quite old--money doesn't care how many poor people die on either side.

http://www.theecologist.org/News/news_analysis/2482929/gaza_israels_4_billion_gas_grab.html

 

All the righteous, self-justifying political bluster of ultra-partisan zealots rings hollow when the unembellished human toll speaks for itself so eloquently.

 

I know of the IDF's ability to commit mass murder, as do so many others.
I'm rather hoping it'll start Israel's downfall.
The world's press is turning against Israel on this matter; even the notably anti Muslim UK daily mail is siding with the defending Palesinians.
Israel has managed to get away with far too many crimes, but they may have gone too far this time. I hope the world has come to see what a bunch of evil sods your government and armed forces are.

 

Israel had been intentionally targeting civilians since about 2006. They pretend to be the victim to the world community while then priding themselves on their aggression within their own country. Their philosophy is to disregard civilian casualties for the sake of suffering no military losses and damned be the consequences. Some woman with a house full of kids isn't going to be able to round them all up and get them safely out of an apartment building and away from the area with a 60 second prior to an incoming attack phone call. Israel doesn't want them to be able to. They do it for show because groups like Amnesty International have them on their radar for their human rights violations. They want to kill civilians as punishment since they are otherwise totally ineffective/incompetent on the issues related to fighting asymmetrical warfare, but then want to get away with it so their aid money doesn't stop flooding in.

There are enough Jews in the US that the religion will survive and flourish safely. There is no other reason to defend or assist Israel at this point.

 

I HELD OFF on this thread. It was pointless to respond. Its another thread set up to name call.

You MGB I just want to say something directly to you though. I worked in Israel, volunteered there, went to university there for a bit.

I witnessed your 3rd statement first hand. The irony is Palestinians are treated by Arabs as Jews once were by both Arabs in Arab countries and Europeans in European countries.

I also think you might be right that if Hamas is taken down another terrorist group may replace it. Maybe Al Quaeda, I think ISIS.

That said, I have to disagree with you generalizing all Palestinians as worshipping terror and death.

That is as pointless a slur as the ones you see that come back against Israelis, Zionists, Jews, etc.

Palestinians are caught like Israelis in a cycle of violence. You have to believe me when I say, Israel knows when it sends its forces in on the ground or responds by air, etc., it is in one sense doing what Hamas wants-killing Palestinian civilians deliberately placed in harm's way as a propaganda tooto gain sympathy for Hamas and incite hatred for Israel.

Hamas wants Israel to react and kill civilians so that the survivors of those civilians become the seeds or source of tomorrow's terrorists.

Its the whole point of what Hamas does.Hamas blew up all the roads, mosques,schools, community centres, residences,Israel build for Palestinans in Gaza. It lit Palestinians on fire placing rubber tires around their neck as a warning to all Palestinians in Gaza to never cooperate with Israelis.

It shot dead any Palestinian it found out worked in Israel.

It deliberately blew its people's infrastructure up to serve as a warning to them never to work with Israel.

Its a vicious organization but can we be fair. Many Palestinians voted it in because at the time they did the only alternative was the corrupt Arafat.

By voting Hamas, they thought at least the government would be honest.

A violent cell took over that embraces violence.

Now please understand, you do not know whether the people of Gaza are all terrorist and embrace death. How do you know that....you can't. Its fair to say many want peace with Israel and are sick and tired of Hamas.

This latest war is a curse. Its a curse because Natanyahu has no choice. He does not do it because he hates Palestinians. If he does not show Hamas he is willing to protect Israel now as we speak, it will simply open the flood gates to more attacks and even more Palestinian as well as Israeli deaths. Yes you and I know Hamas are animals but let us not throw Palestinians out with them.

I was taught as a Zionist to respect Arab peoples and their cultures. I was never taught to hate them or define them as animals and I know most Israelis as hard as it is on hem to deal with Muslim extremism fueling Hamas and other organizations do not want to kill or see innocent Palestinians die. Its just not who Israelis are. Both are good people caught in a cycle of violence.

I am proud of the fact Haddasah hospital treats Palestinians as we speak.Thousands of Palestinians from Gaza and the West Bank are treated in Israel hospitals each year. Israel increased work permits for Palestinians to work in Israel by 40% since 2011. It supplies 50% of Gaza's electricity as we speak. This is because despite all the rhetoric, Israelis are trying to show Palestinians they do not hate them.

I do not agree with the extremist Americans who came from New York and set up the Kache Party and are on the West Bank. They are insolent and rude to the Sabras (native born Israelis) and the IDF as much as they are to Palestinians.

They do not reflect the vast majority of Israelis who are tired with all the hatred and violence. Hatred is a wasted emotion Israelis can not afford to waste their energy on. They need that energy to defend against terrorism. Emotions like hatred would make it impossible for them to remain disciplined.

I just wanted to say that because as I read all the anti Israeli posters I know many talk like you in an extreme tone and think Israelis think that way.

They do not. Israelis are in a war for survival. They do not hate Palestinians. It is their terrorist leaders they are at war with.

Why you would write off all Palestinians I do not know.

All I can say is its as pointless as the anti Israelis on this thread making their sweeping extreme comments about Israel.

Its not going to help us find peace.

Peace comes when we can find a way to show an alternative to Hamas and for that matter Mr.Abbas who I believe is as extreme as Hamas and playing a game.Peace will come by finding a way to speak directly to the Palestinian people.

I was involved in charitable activities between the Israeli government and the PLO but that was what now seems a long time ago, 42 years or so ago.

Things have changed. I witnessed the aftermath of a terror attack. Had a friend shoot his head off from ptsd. I know personally members of the IDF.

I also know Arab Israelis and Palestinians.

I will say this one last time. The Israelis I lived with and were taught by, never taught me to hate anyone. They were respectful, calm and full of humility.

I met some pretty tough sob's and I never once saw a hint of arrogance and I learned and if you want a stereotype, it is that Israelis are reluctant warriors-they will do what they have to do to survive but they do not do so because they hate anyone.

I am loath to speak about Israelis. Its not my business to, they can speak for themselves but they are not hateful and if someone said they were I would be the first to defend their right to live as they do. So for that very same reason I can not hate nor will I engage in generalizations of hatred against Palestinians. It doesn't do a damn thing other than inflame and empower terrorists.

 

On the basis of the verbiage above, it would have been a wise move to have continued to hold off.

 

Explain please.

 

So a person trapped means they must fire rockets? What if they have no rockets how will they do this then? And where is it written that a person who is trying to protect their children must fire rockets, is this found in a manual of parenting somewhere and if so please produce it otherwise, they have a chioce - don't fire rockets as it will garner an inevitable response.

 

So Jews are like Gypsies huh Fred? Nobody wants them. Sort of like Gays, Kurds etc?

- - - Updated - - -

Yep, just started this am, prior to that they were extolling how great Israel was!

 

Israel charges them because it is wrong;

" Two IDF soldiers charged with using 9-year-old 'human shield' in Gaza war"

And Hamas brags about it when they use it as policy;

"Hamas Spokesman Defends Using Civilians As Human Shields"

“The policy of people confronting the Israeli warplanes with their bare chests in order to protect their homes has proven effective against the occupation,” he tells al-Aqsa TV. “Also, this policy reflects the character of our brave, courageous people. We in Hamas call upon our people to adopt this policy, in order to protect the Palestinian homes.”

 

I agree with you.

Personally I wish you'd change your avatar since mccain is such a
worthless meddling moderate, not that there's another kind. Agreeing
with him is like choosing to be boiled in oil.

Yes, he's a war hero. No, he's a political idiot like ALL wmm's.

 

History seems to suggest so.

 

No problems then Fred, Israel is now a reality!

 

The "bravery" of HAMAS is clear: they stay well hidden in their tunnels and they leave their women and children face the Israeli soldiers ...

If this is their concept of bravery ...

Now the situation is going to become unsustainable for the terrorists. I hear that today Meshaal and Mazen will meet today in Qatar, [nice place, a bit hot, but nice place as for I remember]. What are they going to discuss?

Abu Mazen cannot make any pressure on the international community [for once the "international community" seems not too annoyed by Israeli actions, it's a good sign, may be this ghost entity is becoming mature ...], so he can only suggest to Meshaal to surrender or to leave Gaza to Fatah.

But Mazen could have no interest in asking that: if Gaza is under the control and responsibility of Fatah, in case of further launches of rockets against Israel, Tel Aviv could decide to attack the West Bank and Fatah ...

 

For the moment, yes.

 

Indeed. It did not have to impose an all around seige in the first place. It chose to do that.

The first ceasefire which held for six months was broken by Israel when it decided that tunnels on Gazan tunnels were unacceptable. The result was Gilad Shalits capture. It chose that too.

It was offered a thirty year truce, time enough to work out a solution and engineer an economy that would encourage Palestinians to take a different path. It decided that only a peace treaty would do. It chose that to.

Overall. It has decided while all methods in its own defence are acceptable to its enemy, any defence methods Hamas employs, such as tunnels, and rockets, are unacceptable by definition. It chooses that too. This is typical militarist thinking that has be-deviled Israeli society for generations now.

 

Your post is promoting terrorism against Israel and has been reported.

The Israeli heroes will rightly continue to terminate Hamas terrorists. Collateral damage will be regrettable.

 

What terrorism?
Israel is attacking a foreign country, so the defenders are exactly that, not terrorists.
Israel is the attacking force, thus their losses are perfectly acceptable, preferably in large numbers.
I'm hoping hamas has anti tank missiles.

It's nice of you to prove how Israel's supporters like to stifle free speech and opinions they dislike.

 

Israel is NOT attacking a foreign country. Israel is attacking a strip of Israeli sands where terrorists live. Israel has thus far neutralised 425 folks in Hamas-occupied areas.

Any collateral damage is the responsibility of Hamas, who hides behind the collateral when firing missiles of Islamic Terror.

 

I see the problem here, you stated that the IDF is doing what it wants to do yet now say it is the government that is making policy so, in effect the IDF is not doing what it wants to do rather it is doing what the government tells it to do which is akin to every other military on earth hence, your statement of;

"The IDF is not doing what it must do, its doing what it wants to do. Big difference."

Is false.

 

Where did I say it's the government? Can't see any mention of the government there. Could you explain you're thinking here?

 

By the way guys. A recent news Flash Ive seen says that thirteen IDF soldiers have been killed.

Is that Ok in your book or is that some atrocity? Since you are certain that Israel only defends itself and don't seem to like the idea of Palestinian people defending themselves I just wanted to check with your first.

 

I don't understand how anyone can support the current political definition of terrorism.

 

You said;

"The first ceasefire which held for six months was broken by Israel when it decided that tunnels on Gazan tunnels were unacceptable. The result was Gilad Shalits capture. It chose that too.

It was offered a thirty year truce, time enough to work out a solution and engineer an economy that would encourage Palestinians to take a different path. It decided that only a peace treaty would do. It chose that to."

Israel has a government who makes policy, you know, ceasefires, truces etc as the IDF does what the government tells it to.