Are the Palestinians the Jews NOT expelled from Judaea after Bar Kochba Revolt?

Not long ago Israel signed a Gas areement with Jordan, an agreement that would help not only the economy of Israel, but also would makes Jordan as a leader in cooperating with Israel about the environmental problem the world is facing.
I dont heard about signing a same agreement between Canada and Israel, but I would be pleased if that agreement would be signed between the countries, it will just strengthen the friendship and the cooperation between the two. And also would help Canada in so many ways.

The things that Canada is doing to soppurt Israel in this conflict and even in general is very overwhelming, and it just shows how much the freindship between the two is so strong!
Just the speech the P.M. Harper did in Israel at the of the last operation, and showed the great Canadian soppurt in Israel actions just doing well about the relations of the the two!
Canads, is Israel's greatest ally in the world, and the Canadian government doesnt ashame to shows it when they can!

It could be, I believe that the last agreement that been signed between Isreal and Jordan, will help Jordan to "change color", probably the near death experience that Dannion Brinkley experienced is been fullfiled today, about Jordan "changing color".But also the changing color in Jordan is fullfiling even in the agreement you gave that Jordan and Norway signed.
Just one thing in his prophacy didnt yet happen, and that is agreement between the Arabs and Israel (I take it a reference about the conflict). That probably wouldnt happen in the near future.

 

In which case you differ with Professor Ariella Oppenheim of the Hebrew university Tel Aviv, a world.reknowned geneticist.
If you would please be so kind, refer to 5 minutes 33 secs into this video clip

[video=youtube;nPRgXAYTQlU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPRgXAYTQlU[/video]

It was compiled by Tsvi Misinai who, according to the Jerusalem Post, "knows perhaps are about the origins of the modern Palestinians than anyone” (click previous for source). It continues “Misinai says he can declare with certainty that nearly 90 percent of all Palestinians are descended from the Jews. "And what's more, about half of them know it””. By the way, Tsvi Misinai is also well-respected by Dennis Tate, a major contributor and originator of the thread.

Lastly, you also are at odds with Professor Israel Finklestein, Professor of Archaeology at the Tel Aviv university and leader of the investigations into the origin of the highland Hebrew tribes:

Now that is quite a battery of experts to be against with your claim.

 

The "Palestinians" themselves admit to be Arabs.
And not some "mix of Canaanites, Romans and Jews" as you claim.

 

Your spelling is atrocious. The Palestinians were not sea people from Cyprus and Greece.. The Palestinians were Arabs and Canaanites. Your history stinks and so does your mental map.. The Edomites were NOT from the area of Jordan.

 

The Palestinians are descended from Jewish farmers who didn't leave and they are mixed with Canaanites, Greeks, Egyptians, Arabs, Syrians, Crusaders etc. You should learn some history .............

 

I won't debate any more with individual, replying "That is crap" to her opponents.
On any issue.

 

1. In your map there is no evidence to the "Palestinians", but only to the Philistines and of course they are not "Palestinians"!!
2. I never said that the"Palestinians" are from Greece and Cyprus, but only the Philistines are from there! it seems that your reading comprehation not so good! I wrote it clear!
3. the historical Palestinians were the people that lived in the Land of Israel before 1948, and they were Arabs, Jews and Christians. BUT the name "Palestinians" of today doesnt refer to the historical fact but for some sort of fiction about some "Palestinian nation", which was never existed! you already agreed with me on that!
4. and still Edomites were from Arabian Peninsula, which you agree with me in your comment.

 

They were called Palestinians when I was a child in Arabia..

Look at the map.. the Edomites were not from Jordan.

Every single Jewish person that I have ever know.. at school, in my social relations, at work and in my family have always valued education. What has happened here and why don't you? Is there some oppression in Israel when it comes to Sabra education? All your scholars and intellectuals know the truth.. All the archeologists know the truth of history.. What the hell is the problem?

 

Nicely said, but where did you read that... get me a link, this sounds a little daring.
Do not write niceties for the Arabs when you do not have enough proof to confront the readers with.

 

genetic studies shows that Jews and Palestinians share a great deal of DNA.

this suggests they have Jewish ancestry.

 

And how's that contridacting what I said?
The name "Palestinians" of today has nothing to do with the historical name or with the Philistines! beucase if it does have connection with the historical name, it means that they cant call themselves "nation", because before 1948 the Palestinians werent a nation but it was the nickname of the people (Jews, Muslim and Christins) who lived in the Land of Israel.
And it has nothing to do with the Philistines because the Philistines were venished before the Arabs of today existed or Islam existed!

We already agreed on it, I dont see why you keep deny it!

And still it doesnt in the Arabian Paninsula.

All the scholers and archeologists? this it wrong! why? because I know several of arcehologists and scholers, that would disagree with you!! therefore, your assumption is incorrect!

BTW- alot of they inforamtion I know and posted in this forum came from the scholers and archeologists I know.

 

Oh there are lots of links .. and I have posted them repeatedly.. Before serious research Ben Gurion said the Palestinians were descended from Jewish farmers who remained behind and converted to Christianity and then to Islam.. Of course he considered them "traitors" to the faith.

How the heck do you reject education and the findings of your own archeologists and intellectuals. Every Jewish person I ever knew put a high value on education.

 

I know that!! which means they converted at some point in history by force! because the video that shows that even brings what those Arabs say, and they say that they keep lighting candles in the Shabat, therefore they converted by force! and that happened when Muhammad and Arabs contorled over the Land of Israel.

You can go to some villages in Hebron mountain and see Arab village with Magen David and people who keep doing Jewish customs.
For example, the Arab village that its name is Bar Kochba is after the name of the one who fought against the Romans. And those people of this vilage you can see talking in the video that shows what you said.

 

You're a big man to deal with the truth.. My hat's off to you.

I was reading about 6 months ago that many of the Negev Bedouin have some small Jewish customs..

 

That or Jews got Arab ancestry.

 

Genetic Threads Explain Jewish Ancestry
(Ivanhoe Newswire) -- Using sophisticated genomic analysis, scientists have probed the ancestry of several Jewish and non-Jewish populations to better define how contemporary Jewish people are related. The research may shed light on the question, raised more than a century ago, of whether Jews are a race, a religious group or something else.

TO READ SOME MORE CLICK ON THE FOLLOWING
http://www.ivanhoe.com/channels/p_channelstory.cfm?&storyid=24464

 

Stuntman…. in your opinion am I being naive to believe firmly in some sort of miraculous transformation in the average thought and behaviour pattern of Palestinians as the prediction for the "restoration of the lost tribes of Israel" comes to pass?


Isaiah 11:11
¶
"And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth."
http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Isa&c=11&t=KJV


Am I naive to think that this subject coincides with the raising up of a modern King David…. whatever that means????

http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Eze&c=37&t=KJV
Ezekiel 37:21
"And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:Neither shall they defile themselves any more with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions: but I will save them out of all their dwellingplaces, wherein they have sinned, and will cleanse them: so shall they be my people, and I will be their God."


http://www.politicalforum.com/relig...wish-people-decades-before-jesus-returns.html
Is King David raised up for the Jewish people decades before Jesus returns?
Is King David raised up for the Jewish people a significant amount of time previous to when the feet of Messiah stand on the Mt. of Olives in fulfillment of Zechariah chapter 14?

It is pretty obvious that Jesus/Yahushua expects us to believe in the specific fulfillment of the words of the prophets.

"Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:" (Luke 24:25)

"But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them." (Jeremiah 30:9)

It is relevant that Jesus/Yahushua clearly identified John the Baptist as a modern Elijah for his time period. Has King David already reincarnated in our time period....or will he certainly do so in the very near future????

"And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not,....
Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist." (Matthew 17:10-13)

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tsvi_Misinai

HBendor….. I would also be extremely interested in your reaction to my post #492 that is a reply to Stuntman?

 

An interesting article indeed!

Would the major event of 2500 years ago be the difference between the Jews and descendants of the lost tribes that were taken captive by Babylon….. vs the somewhat earlier Assyrian captivity of the Northern Kingdom of Israel?

 

Forum rule 11 states " Images, links, quotations, etc., should be used to support a member's opinion, not to replace it."
You made no comment flowing from your reference, offered no opinion, made no analysis, in fact you didn't use your link at all; you just dumped it here.

Care to be more scholarly?

 

Why on earth would I want to disagree with that? I couldn't agree with you more!! We are "blood brothers" on this one. There is indeed nothing 'Arab' in it - in ancient times. PS: It is also the ancient home of the Canaanites and other pre-Israelite peoples (non-Arabs) for that matter, and their descendents would have equal right to trumpet that ancient historic link, not so?.

Ah, OK, because previously I read that you were claiming that Palestine was repopulated by (true - Hejaz) Arabs in the 7th C. I now see that you have abandoned that Idea and are once again re-emphasising “recent”. You are going to need to PROVE that there were no indigenous Palestinians (non-Ottomans sensu stricto) on the land during the pre-1800 Ottoman period. I suggest that this is going to be a mammoth task for you, and I look forward to seeing you try it. Perhaps you could start with the 1880 Ottoman census, or better still with Roberto Bachi's 1974 monograph. I will quote from it in my next post.

Mohammed Ali ruled for a short period in the early 1800s. There were no “400 years” of labour transfer, so your attempt with that insinuation failed. Now, about these Egyptian labourers – how many were there? Were there enough, HB, to push (for some unexplained reason) the existing Palestinians into a self-imposed diaspora or 'into the sea' and thereby make Palestine "Arab"?

But wait – stop there, because there is no need to debate this again. We know that Palestinians were very much on the land. In fact we know that in that brief period in the early 1800s Ali imposed conscription on Palestine. Who was he conscripting? The answer of course is – Palestinians!! Done and dusted, no matter what Mark Twain wrote. Now here’s a tough one for you. Who took part in the revolt by the Palestinians in 1834 against Ali? Oooops – I already gave the game away. At which huge battles did Ali drive the historic peoples out of Palestine? Answer: There were none, were there, HB? In fact, Kimmerling and Migdal point to 1834 as being the first formative event of the Palestinian people.

But HB, we have been through all of this before. Each time when you mention Ali and his labourers, I ask you how many there were, what percentage they formed of the people of Palestine, and how those Egyptian labourers managed to swamp the existing peoples, and each time you go into war-time radio silence, because there were no huge battles; no huge slaughters; no genocide of the Palestinians, and no major transfer of people.

Before you start to quote cases of other immigrations into Palestine, allow me to pre-empt you. Of course there were such movements. That would be natural for such a climatically favourable cross-roads. There were late-Bronze Age immigrations by Mediterranean "Sea People" (later absorbed by the Israelites); later by the Egyptians; by the mysterious Philistines; by Maghrebi; Cretans; other Hellenistic people; true Arabs / Bedouin; Yemeni; Syrians; all just as one might expect. But there was no large-scale population transfer out of Palestine until the Nakba of 1948-1950.

And all of these hydridisations and genetic additions are reflected in the genetic studies that have become commonplace in the literature since 2000. To quote Almut Nebel of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem: "Their analysis suggested was that Palestinians were identical to Jews, but with a small mix of Arab genes - what you would expect if they were originally from the same stock, but that Palestinians had mixed a little with Arab immigrants." in fact the typical Arabian J1 haplotype of the Y-chromosome (male) is present in 21% of Palestinians and in 12% of Ashkenazi Jews. See what this is confirming?

But you know all of that already. It has been shown to you with full verifiable academic referencing - Hammer, Nebel, Koffman, Atzmon, Ostrer, etc. Why do you continue to deny it then, and to pretend that the Palestinians are 100% Hejaz Arabs, as Thunderbolt does?

See above.

 

Your post above contains glaring inaccuracies.
Regarding rather dying than converting I refer you to a publication on Israel's population supported by the office of the Prime Minister. I have underlined the interesting bits that refute your claim:

Now on to your claim that all of the Palestinian Ottoman subjects were Arabs, please provide your evidence (with references) to where the converted pagans, Jews and Christians were ejected (or wiped out) EN MASSE from Palestine, and totally replaced by immigrant Hejaz ('true') Arabs by a processes of mass-transfer or mega-genocide.

Many thanks

 

Wow!!!!!!

Your quotation does a spectacular job of dealing with this subject Klipkap!

Your summary question gets right to the heart of this matter!!!!!




THE POPULATION OF ISRAEL (1974) by Roberto Bachi
(supported by the Demographic Center of the Prime Minister's Office in Israel and by the Institute of Contemporary Jewry of the Hebrew University of Jerusalem)

Yesterday evening my wife and I watched the movie "Cleanskin" starring Sean Bean. She fell asleep but I watched every minute of it………… This movie in a sense paves the way for a movement all across the Islamic nations where the Koran will more and more begin to be understood as Islamic Mystics and Sufi Muslims understand it.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleanskin_(film)

All human beings living in the Middle East are about to become humbled…… regardless of their religious background.
Isaiah 2:17
"And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the LORD alone shall be exalted in that day."

Near death experience accounts and numerous studies in parapsychology will soon be understood for what they are…….. and all of us will get to the place where we are so aware of what we might have done to others when raised under different conditions and culture………… that we find it difficult to maintain extreme anger against the people that we tend to consider enemies!

Klipkap….. now that this other discussion has gone on to six pages… I feel it is time to explain how the problem of rockets landing on Sderot can be addressed!!!
http://www.politicalforum.com/gay-lesbian-rights/380595-g-ds-agenda-gay-community.html
G-d's Agenda for the Gay Community?!
Assuming the accuracy of the following two paragraphs...… what specifically would G-d/ HaShem/ YHWH/ The G-d of Abraham be planning to do through the Gay Community?


http://www.near-death.com/andreason.html#a11

Obviously..... one of the things that our Creator wishes to do through the Gay Community..... is to create a whole new world in which there....."would never be one single wisecrack or hurtful remark made ever again"... is expanded and expanded and expanded to all groups and communities on earth?!

I think?!

 

.

First of all - Geneticists are NOT in total agreement / no consensus , they seem to be in constant dispute .

However - how can any DNA study of ancient roots support land ownership claim in a modern state . ?

------

 

Besides the previously quoted references of the Cambridge History of Judaism, and Roberto Bachi's 1974 work, I also quoted Fred Astren from the “Encyclopedia of the Jewish Diaspora: Origins, Experiences, and Culture, Volume 1 – Ed. Mark Avrum Ehrlich” (page 140) which you can find here:
http://www.politicalforum.com/showthread.php?t=381557&page=8&p=1064476129#post1064476129. Not one single refutation or even acknowledgement of these pieces of supporting evidence have been made by either HBendor or by Thunderbolt. They simply steam-rollers forward as though their postulations are unsullied and that no refutation ha ben offered to their thesis that Jews would not convert.

So here is yet another nail in the coffin that the Palestinians are "Arabs" and that "Jews would rather die than convert", i.e. the Palestinian Jews became Palestinian Arabs (and did, naturally) not have a Hejaz origin):

Regarding the misapplied word "Arab", according to Sadek Jawad Sulaimanis the former Ambassador of Oman to the United States: “The Arabs are defined by their culture, not by race … Beyond that, he or she might be of any ancestry.” KABOOOMMM!!!

So can we agree that these scholarly works all demonstrate that Jews (and Christians and pagan slaves) did convert to Islam? If not, please provide evidence refuting these specific writings as being in error.