Why do debates about religion get so negative?

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Defender of Freedom, Dec 5, 2014.

  1. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Even stars don't do that and they produce more energy than anything.
     
  2. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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    Ultimately they can't. If Jesus was moral, they of course could and would, loudly.

    But you can, so I commend you. So of course then you agree that the "god" of the bible is immoral, right?
     
  3. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Wow! How quickly you forgot your comment in post #89.
     
  4. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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    Please google the word "placebo".
     
  5. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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    Overall, they follow the example of their prophet more than the average Muslims does, obviously. Mohammad said that raping captives was ok, that cutting off hands/feet was ok, that crucifixion was ok, that women could be beaten (Qur'an 4:34), that women were inferior to men (Q4:34), and that men were in charge of women (Q4:34.) True Islam.
     
  6. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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    The all-powerful, all-loving "Jesus", with his magic super-powers, could have educated them at sometime in the last, say 1900 years.....but he's either not moral enough or not real enough to have lifted a finger to do so. Clearly not worthy of being a role model. I think even my pet turtle, had Turty had said magic super-powers, would have done that. So I look to my pet turtle for moral guidance more than I do to Jesus.
     
  7. Dood

    Dood New Member

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    I've never claimed to always be right. Are you?

    However, just checked my post in #89... no judgment there, just an observation.
     
  8. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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    Wyrd believes in freedom, in love, in finding the truth, in justice, and a whole lot more, I can assure you. Jesus believed in HIMSELF, or he'd have not said in John 14:6 that the only way to not get tortured was through HIM. Wyrd would have said "the only way to the father is through morality and good works, because it's not all about me." Wyrd is more moral, and therefore more worthy of your praise, than someone who would see that I get tortured for not believing that his magic was actually real. Wyrd is better than Jesus ever could be.
     
  9. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Jesus only preached to the Jews. The neighbors he said that they should love were other Jews. He didn't give squat about other people.
     
  10. Toefoot

    Toefoot Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Lunatic...........
     
  11. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    People have worshipped thousands of things they have called gods and swore that they were rel. Not one so-called god of any kind has ever done anything godly since the first con man created him and told his buddies about his imaginary friend. So let one of these gods come forth in all its reported majesty and splendor and reveal itself. As Jesus' brothers told him, if you want to be known don't hide under a rock but show yourself to the world.

    It's not up to us to prove your imaginary friend doesn't exist; it's up to it to prove that it exists.
     
  12. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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    Correct, as per usual:
    (Matthew 10:5-6):
    These twelve Jesus sent out, instructing them, "Go nowhere among the Gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

    In Matthew 15:22-24: "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

    So if you're not of the house of Israel, then Jesus is not coming back for you.
     
  13. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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    Whoa, hold on there! God is constantly doing "godly" things! God created Ebola (kills innocent children for one thing) because he hates us so much. God told us in the Bible that slavery was a very good thing, so we enslaved people for centuries and used his teachings to defend slavery (even in America). God's example showed us to be cruel and violent towards each other (even more so than Mohammad did.)
    Number of Cruel or Violent Passages:
    Bible 1214
    Quran 527
    From http://dwindlinginunbelief.blogspot...lent-bible-or-quran.html#sthash.oI1S11C7.dpuf

    So god is VERY godly. :-D
     
  14. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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    Can you back up your opinions with references and good, logical, consistent, analysis, like Wyrd does? Remember: "opinions are like ass_____ - everybody has one."
     
  15. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Only fanatics believe in gods. The other "believers" go along just to get along. Imagine all of the billions of people who worshiped all of those thousands of dead and forgotten gods because the fanatics forced them to go through the motions. Moses killed thousands of his groupies because they didn't believe in his imaginary deity. After doing that a couple of times people started to think that it was safer to at least act like they believed than to say it was all BS. But they wanted their own gods even if they were just pieces of wood or rocks instead of Moses' nutty invisible deity with all of his rules and rituals.

    The entire Bible is about the fanatics' attempts to force people to believe in their imaginary deities. Sometimes the fanatics use force, as Moses and King Asa did. Other times they use threats and fear as in the New Testament. After all, who wants to end up in the lake of fire when you can prevent it just by believing in a magical Jewish zombie?
     
  16. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    Just about all of the characters in the various "holy books" are lunatics. You will be hard pressed to find just one sane one. The best one I can think of is Job. All of the other characters are completely nuts.
     
  17. Toefoot

    Toefoot Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Adjusted...


    Lunatics.
     
  18. The Wyrd of Gawd

    The Wyrd of Gawd Well-Known Member

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    They forget that Jesus wanted people to get tossed into the lake of fire.
    http://www.bricktestament.com/the_parables_of_jesus/use_of_parables_explained/mk04_33-34.html
     
  19. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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    So the moral of the Bible is to TORTURE sane people (judging by the treatment that Job got from "god".)
     
  20. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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    If the promised reward comes at the expense of your common sense, your reason, your critical thinking, and your belief in science, then the price is too high.
     
  21. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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  22. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So you know the mind of JC? Has it ever occurred to you, that he was speaking to the Jews, using their own misunderstood religion, to show them the light? He taught within the context of the jewish religion. So he was speaking to jews. This is all that was going on, and if you actually understood the context, and his teachings, this is so obvious as to be unquestionable.

    I am not a Christian. I am not a bible thumper. But I can so easily see what he was doing, what he was talking about, as I can see what the Buddha was all about, and Lao Tzu. There is a tremendous commonality between those three spiritual men. They were speaking of the same things, but the cultural backdrop and language was different. Buddha used Hinduism as the backdrop, JC , Judaism. Yet Buddhism spread beyond india, and the teachings of JC spread beyond Israel. The hindus who understood Buddha did so because he addressed them through their own religion, their own culture. How else was he to do it? He, like JC was caught in there own particular culture.

    What you guys need is some intellectual sosphistication, and a decent knowledge of religion. And at what these men were actually saying, and trying to do. The Church got it wrong, and corrupted it, thanks to Paul, and the Buddha, his teachings had exactly the same problem. All it take is one big mouth who doesn't understand what either said, or were trying to do, and it's over with. Which is exactly what happened.

    But there is a Perennial Philosophy here, in all 3 men I mentioned. Only a few actually understand it. But it's not that complicated. Neither the JC critiques nor the Christian true believers understand it at all, but some men have, and books have been written about it. Too bad you guys don't read. :)
     
  23. One Mind

    One Mind Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Again, you do not understand the very nature of enlightenment. If a Buddhist were to read that link you gave, they would know immediately what was being said about parables, and spiritual understanding. And they would not have understood that JC wanted people to get tossed into a lake of fire.

    Yet if people heard and understood the parable, they would not only see, but also perceive. If they heard the parables, and understood, they would be forgiven after they "turned" Those parables contained the possibility that people would perceive and understand. For JC is speaking of something that cannot simply be conveyed by literal words, as the word is never what is described.

    To actually understand what JC was talking about, you would have to be well versed in the Gospel of Thomas. And understand what Christ was saying in that gospel. For therein is the key to understanding. Yet it was excluded from the NT. Even as it was nothing but the teachings, no stories. If you understand what he taught in the gospel of Thomas, it would be easier to get some context to what he said in Mark.

    An epiphany is essential when it comes to understanding. If you never have one, there is much incoherence involved, and then people start to spout out rubbish about JC. Some of the stuff written in this thread shows the deep lack of spiritual insight, which of course I would not expect an atheist to have any at all. But its hard sometimes listening to the lunacy coming from the people who apparently despise the figure of JC. But this lunacy is based upon utter ignorance, and no offense intended. It's like trying to explain physics to someone who cannot do basic elementary math.

    But understand, orthodox Christians would totally disagree with what I say as well as the atheists. For they don't actually understand Christ either. They are Pauline Christians, not of Christ. Christ was a simple mystic, for that is the only way spiritual knowledge is discovered. All genuine religion is mystical in nature, and when you try to orthodox it, you (*)(*)(*)(*) all over it, and start talking incoherent rubbish.
     
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  24. dairyair

    dairyair Well-Known Member

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    Does prayer only work for christians? Or can the jews, muslims, buddah's, hindus, etc have prayer work for them?
    If prayer works for them, is there more than 1 God?
    Or does the fact one prays is all that matters and prayer to a rock works as well, afterall it's all about how one feels and interprets things, after said prayer.
     
  25. FreedomSeeker

    FreedomSeeker Well-Known Member

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    The penalty for not being Christian is being tossed into a lake of fire, and the only way to the father is through our boy Jesus (per John 14:6), so he's right, actually. Misdirecting them away from believing in him, on purpose, means Jesus tried to get people into a lake of fire.
     

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