US Irrepairably Divided

"progressives" make a lot of noise about the battle over the GOP between the conservatives (Tea Party) and the Democrat Lite establishment Republicans.

What "progressives" have not mentioned is the civil war in the Democrat Party. After the Nov 2014 election rout of the Democrat Party, a clear split has emerged in that party. Bill Curry wrote an article in Salon which is getting a lot of support in the "progressive" world:

http://www.salon.com/2014/12/23/let...ox_news_and_hoping_elizabeth_warren_saves_us/

Let’s abandon the Democrats: Stop blaming Fox News and stop hoping Elizabeth Warren will save us


Democrats are in denial regarding the magnitude and meaning of their defeat. It is a rejection not just of current leaders but of the very business model of the modern Democratic Party: how it uses polls and focus groups to slice and dice us; how it peddles its sly, hollow message and, worst, how it sells its soul to pay for it all. Party elites hope party activists will seek to lift their moods via the cheap adrenaline high of another campaign. For once, activists may resist the urge.

The vital task for progressives isn’t reelecting Democrats but rebuilding a strong, independent progressive movement. ..........

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It was around then that Wall Street began colonizing the Democratic Party and the Democrats began colonizing the left. After Jimmy Carter squashed Ted Kennedy, challenges to incumbent Democrats ceased. Grassroots movements morphed into Washington lobbies and formed their first PACs......

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They ("progressives") must declare their independence from the Democratic Party, its ineffectual politics and its current, clueless leaders.

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Some say the Democratic Party is beyond saving. Others say it’s our last hope. I see progressives taking leave of Democrats not as abandonment but more like tough love. In the end it may be the only thing that can save Democrats or for that matter progressives, whose reputation has been tarnished by the party that betrayed them. In any event it’s better for both parties for all future business to be conducted on an arms’ length, cash-for-carry basis.

My guess is that if you can’t take over the Democratic Party, you can’t take over the country — and that a declaration of independence should be followed by an actual rebellion. The Tea Party has shown you can work within a party and yet be highly independent. ​

Change some words - Democrat to Republican, "progressive" to Conservative/Tea Party - and its the exact same sentiment about the GOP the Conservatives have been speaking internally since the 2004 Bush re-election, and publicly and actively since TARP in 2008.

What this means is that the nation is irreparably divided and cannot survive in its current form.

The Democrat Party grass roots want to push the nation much further to the Left, are not satisfied with the recent huge strides to the Left, and want to take over the Democrat establishment who have been bought and paid for by billionaire cronies. "progressives" are impatient and want to accelerate the movement into strong socialism.

The Republican Party grass roots want to push the nation to the Right, are greatly distressed over the recent huge strides into socialism, and are working to take over the Wall Street owned GOP establishment. Conservatives have reached their limit with the dictatorial demands of the Left, and the massive intrusive federal government.

Deeply held beliefs the Right sees as fundamental and very personal are under attack, the Left sees those as backwards beliefs which must be eliminated for "progress" to continue. The Right will not suffer to be ruled by the Left, the Left will not allow the Right to exist. The 2 sides are incompatible, they are mutually exclusive, there is no compromise possible.

The nation is split politically, philosophically, and geographically. The end result is limited:

1 - one side gives up and submits to the other - essentially one side commits suicide. Not likely.

2 - One side conquers the other, which is likely to be violent. Political conquest takes time (generations) and the socialist grass roots is too impatient. The Right has already reached or is very close to its political limit, and Conservatives already feel like they have no voice in government - there will be no political road for them to take.

3 - the nation splits into 2 nations. Maybe acceptable to the Right, but not the Left which means a split will involve violence.

4 - the federal government is decentralized and returned to its original limits of few enumerated powers. Let the states have self-determination and choose their path - socialism, libertarianism, or something in between. The fear of widespread violence might force both sides into this option, but its doubtful that the Left will agree to this given their goal for 200 years has been to subjugate the nation. Doubtful the Right will agree given the concern the Left will simply reset and start the push into socialism again.


Unless everyone agrees to option #2, and is willing to live and let live, its going to get rough.

 

So let's split into two countries and see which side makes it.

The left can take California, Blacks, illegals, Hollywood, homosexuals, atheists, potheads, and everybody on welfare.

The right can have everything else.

 

Are the extremes peeved? Yeah. You do make a good point about how both sides are tired of not being able to do something, and the current US political scene will die. Who knows when, but it will die. But is it to the point where we're at each other's throats? No. The US has a weak tradition of violent revolutions. We prefer to go to the ballot to solve our problems.

 

You understand there are people on the right which are apart of every group you mentioned right?

 

We're not split over anything that matters.

We just have it too good right now, so we think petty (*)(*)(*)(*) matters.

 

Perhaps the endorsement of a different type of response to climate change by the G. O. P. could bring the nation somewhat closer together again.

 

the country mended the divide after the civil war

i think we can overcome any current differences

no it can't, get a grip on reality

 

Because no conservatives, Republicans, or Rightists are atheists, homosexual, on welfare, Black, smoke pot, or live in CA?

 

Remember the US was founded in violent revolution, followed by a second violent revolution 80 years later (the Civil War). And people openly speak of revolution as a viable but last resort.

Assuming the ballot box means anything. That's the problem, neither the Right nor the Left see the ballot box as being a viable option. Both sides see the government as being co-opted by Wall Street, cronyism and corruption rule the government.

Both sides are trying to change the system, but both sides are also skeptical of being successful. Once one side truly believes it has been ostracized from the political arena and there is no return, then there is no ballot box and other roads will be taken.

 

That's my option #2 - one side conquers the other. You gloss over the fact that it required a Civil War to force the nation to remain single, about 2% of the population was killed in battle, Reconstruction was brutal, and it took about 100 years for the nation to recover politically and economically.

 

The left can also have windmills, solar panels, community organizers, and smart cars.

The right will take the cops, military, coal, oil, and corporations.

The problem is, which everyone already knows, the left cannot survive without the right. It's impossible. Conservatives will not only survive, but prosper without the left dragging us down. But liberals would cease to exist without milking conservatives for every dime they have.

 

the point is that the nation recovered and i can assure that the gop won't win

no they won't, get a grip on reality

 

You think we could do it that way again. The Red States could invade and occupy the Blue States by armed force and then we could have Reconstruction for another 100 years.

 

Liberal Progressives are the democrat's version of the Tea Party except they make the Tea Party look sane. Elizabeth Warren is their Ted Cruz.

 

Nah..let him continue to entice more people to stay away from the party he represents. How many conservatives will challenge him on that statement.....

 

It isn't as serious as the Civil War. The same thing happened in the 60's. Liberals were loud and pushing an agenda. What happens next is people rejecting their garbage. The only reason they become popular is that enough time has passed that younger people are naive enough to fall for the rhetoric. They will soon learn that these libs are full of crap and reject them. It happened before and it is happening again.

 

Wow, you mean a nation of 300 million people has political factions? Who knew?

 

Didn't read the thread, did you? Its not about the "GOP" winning a revolution, not even close.

 

Or……. perhaps "liberalism" is based on the spiritual principle of eventual "universal salvation" and actually is here to stay…… in some form or another…. until that ideal is realized?!

Conservatism on the other hand is based on…..

Matthew 22:14
"For many are called, but few are chosen."
Matthew 7:13
"Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat"
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

These verses from the Christian Bible have been used to justify an economic system where only a few make it …. and the majority are almost doomed to relative failure……..

 

Liberalism is basically communism...which failed miserably in the last century. The free market system has produced more prosperity for more people than any other system in history.

 

And how do you plan on enforcing this?

 

I think going to the ballot to resolve issues is the most prudent way of avoiding violence; its the mechanism that works best for our country.

 

So the racism comes out I see?

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He doesn't have a clue.

 

Free market worked when the country had heavy industry employing the lower and middle class. Now with an economy more and more based on silly service McJob and the upper class making a killing outsourcing and playing stock market roulette you can't really say that free market is still the panacea.

 

That's what the Plutocrats want to hear you say. As long as we're busy blaming each other while they control the country, they get to run off with the loot. Oldest trick in the book. We are copying the Roman civilization. That's all we are doing. Feeding not only into their hands, we are feeding their hands.