The gay attack on religion is dangerous

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by Battle3, Apr 2, 2015.

  1. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    Despite the gay jihad against religion, the irrational rush to judgement, the triumph (in some political circles) of emotion and hatred over reason, thoughtful people are beginning to push back against the gay activists. People who can reason realize this issue of “gay equality” is not a simple issue but an attack on a fundamental basis for civil society – pluralism.

    From National Review: Pluralism versus Sectarian Secularism http://www.nationalreview.com/article/416314/pluralism-versus-sectarian-secularism-fred-bauer

    First, sectarian secularism, which is the foundation for the gay attitude towards not just religion, but all thought that does not actively support the gay agenda.

    …… sectarian secularism holds that appeals to religious ideas have absolutely no place in the public square, and its adherents will ridicule as out of bounds any appeal to the divine. This position goes well beyond a separation of church and state, which is about distinguishing the institutions of religion from those of governance, and instead suggests that the religious and the political should be entirely separate spheres. Unlike a more moderate and open-minded secularism, sectarian secularism seeks to police the bounds of public debate by rendering religious approaches to politics illegitimate.

    The sectarian secularists have defined once and for all what the U.S. is: a society where religion should be kept in the closet and not influence politics or policy-making.

    The agenda of a closed-minded secularism is distinct from efforts to curtail religious liberty, but there are connections, particularly the emphasis on exclusion and a haughty presumption of absolute knowledge. The sectarian secularist has decided what the acceptable bounds of public debate are and seeks to exclude those whose understanding differs from his. To mangle H. L. Mencken, the enemies of religious liberty and freedom of conscience suffer the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may disagree with them. Those who seek to suppress religious ideas do so in part because they think that they have discovered what is true and just. They believe that dissent from this truth and justice is an admission of an atavistic worldview and that those who hold such worldviews should be exiled from the public square.

    And pluralism:

    While sectarian secularism is primarily about exclusion and intolerance, pluralism is about inclusion and tolerance. ……….If we are interested in defending the promise of the Republic, strengthening civic pluralism has much to recommend it. In contrast to sectarian self-righteousness, pluralism is about moral modesty, the exchange of viewpoints, and an openness to experience. The politics of anger bear bitter fruit, and the purification of history demanded by sectarian impulses hampers the understanding of human complexity that aids the enterprise of self-government. Defending civil pluralism should be of interest to both atheists and believers, and to both the Right and the Left. Pluralism affirms that, despite our differences, we have equal claims to the public square. Furthermore, a pluralist politics can help create a cultural infrastructure for the respect of freedom of thought, conscience, and religion.


    The gay activists are single minded ideologues willing (maybe even intending) to destroy the fabric of a civil society in order to impose their agenda on the nation.
     
  2. Karma Mechanic

    Karma Mechanic Well-Known Member

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    Where did gay people attack religion?
     
  3. Ronstar

    Ronstar Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Gay people have a right to buy food and water
     
  4. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    So let me get what you're saying straight. A minority trying to get protection from the majority threatens plurality. Wouldn't it make more sense to say that the majority is threatening the minority by adopting laws that discriminate against the minority, thus harming plurality?
     
  5. doombug

    doombug Well-Known Member

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    Your mistake is claiming gays are a minority as if gay is a skin color. They are not. There is nothing to support such a notion. How people choose to use their genitalia does not qualify them as a minority.
     
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  6. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    I choice to listen to listen to obscure, non-mainstream music, I am a minority in terms of music. I choice to identify as an Anarchist with Collective Moderate leanings. I am a political minority. Homosexuals make up a minority of the population, therefore they're minorities. If they choice it or if it's forced on them by genes, then they're still a minority.
     
  7. Gatewood

    Gatewood Well-Known Member

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    One would have a great deal of difficulty distinguishing your 'unique' tastes, perspective, and outlook from any other average activist leaning college youth . . . though they all consider themselves unique individualists. The Occupy Wall Street movement was filled to the brim with nearly identical such activist youths. Never before has a 'political minority' had soooooooooooo many identical soul mates.
     
  8. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    Would it help if I told you that the person who drove me to the voting booth was a Republican?

    All squares are parallelograms, but not all parallelograms are squares. Just because people think a certain way doesn't mean it's the same thing all around.

    So how many were there?
     
  9. junius. fils

    junius. fils New Member

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    Religion, of all kinds, has done more harm, to include murder, than gays ever have. By harm, to include murder, I include beating up gays "for fun" and murdering them.
     
  10. ctarborist

    ctarborist Banned

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    So then, if you walked into a bar, and the bar owner was playing Led Zeppelin on the stereo, and you asked him to change the station to obscure non mainstream music, and he refused to do so stating that he refuses to listen to obscure non mainstream music in his place of business, should you be able to sue him for discrimination against a minority and put him out of business?
     
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  11. logical1

    logical1 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My question is why do 98% of the people let 2% of the people bully them around.
     
  12. Professor Peabody

    Professor Peabody Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That's just in the united States.
     
  13. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    Its a myth that its about a powerless and downtrodden minority trying to get protection from the majority. This so-called "minority" has the power to overturn state law (as in the Indiana RFRA), drive businesses out of business (as in the Memories pizza parlor, the Christian florist and baker). Your so-called "minority" is trampling over everyone that in any manner gets in its way.

    The entire gay movement for equality started in plurality - the idea that gays should be treated equally, and that gays and people who disagree with the gay lifestyle would coexist respectfully. Now when the gays have achieved equality and have a - temporary - dominant political and social position, the gays have no tolerance for any difference in opinion and respond hysterically to even hypothetical questions of their actions and beliefs.

    Gays have become the enemy of free thought, diversity, and tolerance, and seek to destroy pluralism. They are the definition of sectarian secularism.
     
  14. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    No. If I don't like the music, I just put my own on. I don't have to like one aspect of something for me to do business with that person.
     
  15. Kranes56

    Kranes56 Banned

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    Welcome to the power of minorites. It doesn't necessarily take a majority of people to change a policy, it just needs enough people to constitute a potential challenge to the majority. Also, welcome to the power of boycotting. Don't like what a service is doing, then their business model is wrong. Bad business models fail.

    No.

    How have they achieved equality when there are still states where it's legal to fire someone due to their sexual orientation?

    No they don't.
     
  16. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    You use the term "minority" to mean numbers or the size of a group relative to the population. The size of the group is not the issue. The power of the group is the issue. People assume that "minority" is synonymous with "powerless" and "victim". That is incorrect.

    In the same manner a dictator is a single man with a small group of supporters yet has total power over his subjects, gays account for less than 2% of the population but have amassed overwhelming power.

    *****

    Boycotting is an act of free will. If a person disagrees with a business and decides to withhold her patronage of that business, then that's boycotting.

    If a person is intimidated into avoiding a business, then that is bullying, not boycotting. Gays are bullies.

    If a person sabotages a business because they don't like the viewpoint of the business owner (as has been done to the Memories Pizza Parlor), and harms the business and its employees, then that's more like tyranny, its not boycotting. Gays act like tyrants.
     
  17. Pardy

    Pardy Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The idea of Christian gay people attacking religion is laughable, and the idea of non-Christian people attacking religion seems unlikely.
     
  18. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    What constitutes a reasonable person? One who agrees with you? I hope not as such insular thinking would be anything but reasonable by my measure of reason.

    What is the "fundamental basis for civil society"? Who gets to decide this for all? You? Me? Someone else? And by what authority?

    To define a group that we are not a part of says more about us than anything else. Just because one perceives a group to be a certain way does not mean said group is actually the way it is perceived. To make a flat out declaration against gay activists is to be ignorant of the multidimensional aspect of any large group. People and groups are not so one dimensional and to label them as such is tantamount to a stereotype.
     
  19. Karma Mechanic

    Karma Mechanic Well-Known Member

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    People seem to not understand that many people believe anti-gay actions are not acceptable anymore. It wasn't gays who changed the law in Indiana, it was a coalition of lots of people including many Republicans who stood up and said no. Oh and I keep hearing that gays are only 2% of the population. I can't believe that is true when a study in the 90s showed that 10% of men have had same-sex attraction or experience within 4 months of being asked. But even if it is only 2%, why would that matter when it comes to rights. What percentage does it take?
     
  20. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    Please show one instance where gay people have authored a law restricting religious freedom. All they have done is worked to REPEAL laws put on the books by Christian activist. That would make it a defensive move - not an attack. Why the persecution complex by some Christians on this issue? You have brought this upon yourselves, so time to put on the big boy pants and realize that actions have consequences.

    Why is this so hard to understand?
     
  21. Daniel Light

    Daniel Light Well-Known Member

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    What you fail to realize is that the majority of the social media posts and tweets are not coming from gay people - they are coming from 20 - 30 year old people who are just tired of what they see as bigotry being spewed in the form of anti-gay laws by Republican legislators.

    Hell, I'm 50 and straight, and I'm getting tired of the garbage coming out of the Republican legislators. We've got better things to be working on.
     
  22. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Indeed! Something I love about America is the idea that the minority is protected from the majority. This has not always been the case, but IMO we are now closer to this ideal of freedom than at any point in our past. For most of our history freedom was confined to white men.
     
  23. Battle3

    Battle3 Well-Known Member

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    First, it was not a voluntary coalition that spoke out against the Indiana law. Many were intimidated into speaking against the law including the "final 4" basketball coaches.


    Good job taking something out of context.

    I mentioned 2% to show that a numerical minority is not automatically powerless, just as a dictator is a numerical minority but rules through force and intimidation.
     
  24. PeppermintTwist

    PeppermintTwist Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The gay rights issue has been settled but the right wing likes living in the past as so many of their stances have proven. If they are going to make this old and tired wedge issue part of their 2016 campaign rhetoric, they are only going to bury themselves. It's actually people from both sides of the ailse that realize that this anti-gay nonsense is jaded, but the die-hard bible thimpers and Evangelical crazies keep the issue alive for their representatives to pander to.
     
  25. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    A+ for a really horrible analogy.

    The business of a bar is to serve drinks. What music happens to be playing or who gets to chose that music is completely irrelevant.
     

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