Jimmy Carter says American is an oligarchy

I agree wholeheartedly.

The reason I'm a Democrat is because I see that party as the only party even talking about doing anything about it. Unfortunatly, efforts to curb big secret campaign money and other aspect of oligarchical rule (jerrymandering, voter supression, the rise of the Military and Security Industrial complex, and crony capitalism) are always blocked by the other side.

True, there are the Ted Cruz's and Donald Trumps on the right. But they are carnival barkers. The prize goes to the people who actually try to do something about this cancer, and not just go on the television networks that promote the oligarchy and rant about it.

Here are the President's remarks:

http://theantimedia.org/jimmy-carter-says-america-has-become-an-oligarchy/

 

I really do not see either party doing anything about it. Sure the democrats talk a better game, but it is with a nudge and a wink. The Republicans are much more open about it. Neither would do a thing to peeved off their huge donors from Wall Street, Corporations, lobbyists and special interests.

I like the way Warren talks, but is she willing to lose close to a billion dollars in campaign donations if she ran for president? Without that wink and a nudge, that money would go to the other candidate. The fact is neither party can afford to try to do anything serious about this oligarchy of money. To do so would doom their election and/or re-election chances. So the Rhetoric flows without any action or serious action. If action is done, it is with loop holes those who provide the money know about far in advance of any vote.

Call me a cynic, I suppose I am. As for gerrymandering, that too won't change much. Each party loves the idea if they win the governorship and legislature of a state to be able to draw lines that ensure their party wins more congressional seats than the other. The party out of power will (*)(*)(*)(*)(*) up a storm, but when it comes into power, they do exactly the same gerrymanders as the party which proceeded them. That party who lost power is not the (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)ing party.

I see no hope.

 

Democrats is party of special rights. Special rights is what divides our society.
The artificial division of society by race by gender by sexual orientation prevent people to stand together and fight oligarchs.
Democrat party policies is a main reason for all problems in U.S.A. I believe Democrat party is sposored by oligarch to exactly what they do, i.e. divide and conquer.

 

Please explain what "special rights" are and cite examples.

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I like Warren too, very much in fact.

In my perfect world, she would be President and Bernie Sanders would be Senate Majority Leader.

 

You can't reason with any of these RepubliCONS and their supporters, they're perfectly content voting against their own best interests in order to make their Masters with all the Money and Campaign contributions happy, while they sit eating Cat Food in their Red State and (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)ing about Obama the Socialist

 

Jimmy Carter is an old fool who has nursed years of bitterness that American voters sent him packing by an overwhelming majority.

And no amount of corporate money can force 60 million voters to vote for a presidential candidate. Or a million voters for a Senator.

 

What makes Carter an "fool"?

Try even becoming a candidate without corporate backing. Try going far in politics without making promises to corporations.

 

That also applies to Democrats.

 

wait wait wait let me try to digest this... you say democrats are the only side trying to change the oligarchy, and then moments later you acknowledge a couple people on the other side trying to change it, but then dismiss them because clearly the other side blocks everything... have you not looked at all the times democrats had to change ANY law and failed to do so... I'm talking about times like Obama's first two years in office when they had full control of all three branches to pass ANY law they wanted... and they again failed to make all these changes required to have a fair system...

now let's dig into that concept a little more...

http://wiredpen.com/resources/political-commentary-and-analysis/a-visual-guide-balance-of-power-congress-presidency/

this is a link to a chart showing the balance of power over the past few decades... showing democrats have had 11 opportunities in the time period to pass any laws they wanted as they had full control of all three branches... and republicans have only had 2 opportunities in that time period to pass any laws they wanted... so democrats have had a long history of full power and control in this country and you're telling me they have never been able to pass a law to solve this problem? including a few years ago when it was even a campaign issue, and they still failed to make dramatic reforms when they won the power?!?!

look I get it, you don't like republicans, and you totally buy into the mantra being preached... I myself have hated both sides for decades so I can appreciate some of your anger and stereotypes... but I reject your claims that its republicans abusing this without including the vast majority of democrats as well in this scenario... I mean you had Obama who won power, after stating he would not cave to donations, but then he did, and once they got full power, he failed to make reforms that made any real difference... he got power and he did exactly what all the others have done, ignored the issue once again...

so please, stop listening to the stereotypes, and stop buying into the republicans are evil and the blockers of all progress in the world... and do what you TRIED to do at the beginning there, recognize there ARE people on the other side who think JUST like you, and recognize that maybe all the mantra you're given isn't accurate and this isn't a republican issue of abuse, and that democrats themselves have had MORE chances than not to solve this, and never have, why, because they love power too and just can't get enough of it, the same with republicans... but please, stop pretending republicans are blocking anything... 11 vs 2 come on...

P.S. how do you feel about Obama raising more money than Romney... and how will you feel if Hillary raises more... its okay because it your side and they aren't doing it to abuse power, they know whats right so its okay, pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, look over here instead? come on dude...

P.S.S. woo something goofy is happening with the board... hopefully this message gets fixed and goes through

 

I vote for this.

 

Which is why we are an oligarchy
We get to choose between bought, and more bought

 

out of curiosity, why is Carter wanting to cut oil use by 50% and instead use american coal, make him a fool... if I recall at the time we were going through the revolution in iran where the world freaked out over an oil shortage... and he wanted to switch to a fuel that we controlled domestically... now I may personally think Carter was an idiot, but this isn't an unreasonable move to rely on your own energy production...

yeah I just double checked... this all occurred back in the iran-iraq war when oil prices jumped dramatically as a result of the whole conflict and this was just a defensive measure to not rely on foreign oil so much, and use a resource that we at the time had insane amounts of and didn't see any trouble using... imagine if america had changed to natural gas and coal back then, how many trillions upon trillions of dollars would never have made it to the middle east? I can only imagine how much different the world would be today if we didn't "fuel" our enemy... pun intended... lol...

P.S. here is a dramatic image showing the flow of dollars during the freakouts... good reason to use another source of energy, why power the enemy...

 

Is Hillary Clinton part of your oligarchy?

 

I do too.

I'm a Republican, for the same reason, and a currently very disappointed Republican, because they haven't done anything about it.

Our constitution preserves our rights through balance of power. Essentially the various elements of government are to be pitted against one another, restricting their ability to impede our rights. This oligarchy has formed because they have learned to cooperate and now they are very effectively encroaching on our rights.

What is the solution? The biggest fear of any oligarchy is that the large group they control unite in rebellion. If they can keep us pitted at each other's throat, their oligarchy remains safe and intact. Our founders forsaw the possiblity of a Federal Government that stopped responding to the voice of the American People and wrote into Article 5, the power of the people, working through the State Legislatures, to amend the Constitution without Federal input. None. No House of Congress, No office of the Presidency, no need to for agreement from a Federal Court. All we need is broad cooperation of the people working through their respective State Legislatures and broad agreement.

So how does the Oligarchy stop this? By throwing up issues that pit us against one another and render both sides powerless, for example:

We are pretty evenly split on those issues so those do not lend themselves to the Article 5 process. What are the issues where there is 75% agreement and yet our voices are not being heard?

If the President never vetoed a bill, the Congress would be completely out of hand. If the Supreme Court never declared anything unconstitutional, the Congress and the President would be operating unchecked. Article 5 has never been used by the State Legislatures to check the Federal Government and as a result the Federal Government vs the States has gotten completely out of hand.

We need to exercise this lawful constitutional power, at least once, to remind the Federal Government that they can be checked, even if they are in complete collusion, they can be checked by the State Legislatures working in concert.

I agree with Jimmy Carter, latent in article 5 is the power to correct it, we need to learn to cooperate and exercise this power, at least once.

 

I do too.

I'm a Republican, for the same reason, and a currently very disappointed Republican, because they haven't done anything about it.

Our constitution preserves our rights through balance of power. Essentially the various elements of government are to be pitted against one another, restricting their ability to impede our rights. This oligarchy has formed because they have learned to cooperate and now they are very effectively encroaching on our rights.

What is the solution? The biggest fear of any oligarchy is that the large group they control unite in rebellion. If they can keep us pitted at each other's throat, their oligarchy remains safe and intact. Our founders foresaw the possibility of a Federal Government that stopped responding to the voice of the American People and wrote into Article 5, the power of the people, working through the State Legislatures, to amend the Constitution without Federal input. None. No House of Congress, No office of the Presidency, no need for agreement from a Federal Court. All we need is broad cooperation of the people working through their respective State Legislatures and broad agreement.

So how does the Oligarchy stop this? By throwing up issues that pit us against one another and render both sides powerless, for example:

We are pretty evenly split on those issues so those do not lend themselves to the Article 5 process. What are the issues where there is 75% agreement and yet our voices are not being heard?

If the President never vetoed a bill, the Congress would be completely out of hand. If the Supreme Court never declared anything unconstitutional, the Congress and the President would be operating unchecked. Article 5 has never been used by the State Legislatures to check the Federal Government and as a result the Federal Government vs the States has gotten completely out of hand.

We need to exercise this lawful constitutional power, at least once, to remind the Federal Government that they can be checked, even if they are in complete collusion, they can be checked by the State Legislatures working in concert.

I agree with Jimmy Carter, latent in article 5 is the power to correct it, we need to learn to cooperate and exercise this power, at least once.

 

Somewhere in that rant, you stopped "digesting" what I said and started putting words in my mouth.

The chart that you put up validates my argument, BTW. You'd know that if you paid attention.

Most of the campaign finance reform laws that exist today, including sunshine laws, and civil rights legislation date from the 1960's and 1970's, a period when Democrats had both houses of Congress and a liberal Supreme Court. Ironically, many conservatives take these laws and the rights and opportunties they confer for granted.

The slow reversal of much of this began with Ronald Reagan (who I voted for).

And the total undermining of any meaningful campaign finance law was the work of the conservative Robert's Court. Democrats have tried to enact legislation to correct the egregious Supreme Court decision, which essentially eliminated any meaningful barrier to secret campaign cash, or any limits on the ability of well heeled donors to buy the government they want. The Disclose Act has been blocked by Republicans in every Congress since Citizen's United was handed down. Without any discussion, either.

So, Democrats, like Obama and Clinton have little choice but to play the game by the rules the GOP wants.

Conservatives like to argue that Democrats had "full control" of both Houses from 2006 to 2010, but they conveniently forget the 60 vote Senate rule, just as they conveniently forget that the GOP made relentless use of filibusters during that period, setting record after record every year. (now of course, Democrats are doing the same thing in reverse).

There are no stereotypes here.

Everything I posted here is a verifiable fact.

Here's another one. In the last 100 years, exactly two Republicans tried for campaign finance reform. One was Teddy Roosevelt, You have to fast forward 80 years to find the next one; John McCain (the guy who the mob calls a RINO).

Then there's this:

I didn't say that. I said that one side is trying to change things (see the aforementioned Disclose Act). I said a couple of people on the other side are TALKING about changing things (Cruz and Trump).

I don't care what folks like that say. I care about what they do. And I have documented taht Democrats are trying to DO something very specific.

All Ted Cruz and Donald Trump are doing is running their mouths.

Cruz is a miserable failure as a legislator. He stages stunts in the Senate like the one he pulled the week before last, and McConnell swats him like a fly.

Trump is a poster child for the problem, not a solution to it. He's a tabloid candidate, exploiting the political process to get publicity, He is not a serious candidate.

 

Jimmy Carter is definitely not my favorite president,but he's right on this one.
What it's going to take is an Article V Convention to strip Congress of the ability to be bribed legally.
It's going to have to happen in order for the US government to function as intended.
Interestingly enough:It was nowhere near as broken when Carter was president.
1979 was the year it really started to get bad.
2007 pretty much sealed the deal.
Here's an article that's OK on the subject: http://www.forbes.com/sites/mikecollins/2015/03/28/buying-government-with-lobbying-money-2/
and a timeline:
http://www.infoplease.com/us/history/campaign-finance-reform-timeline.html

 

That's why I'm a dem and a lib too. I'm actually somewhat center right but I refuse to vote for a party built on false facts that serve a hidden agenda. Certain democrats I dislike as well.

 

Affirmative Actions, gay marriage are special rights.

 

And Jimmy Carter is a fool. End of thread.

 

I agree wholeheartedly. I was a Republican for a long time. But with the rise of Limbaugh, Gingrich, Armey, deLay, Bush and the rest, I felt increasingly uncomfortable being in a party that was precariously balanced between crony capitalist and nativist crazies, and increasingly run by carnival barkers.

I wish the Democratic party was more assertive, but at least it does try to govern.

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Some bigots might say that.

The Supreme Court holds a different view.

 

Although I agree that the dems are just as bad as the repubs on the money issue, to say that the dems had full control of all 3 branches is not really true. They had a majority, but never the super majority to override the filibuster. People seem to forget that Arlan Spector didn't switch parties until almost 6 moths after the election, and that Ted Kennedy was terminally ill during that time (he didn't cast a single vote I don't believe), and also that Al Franken wasn't sworn in until around July of 2009 I believe. They, at their peek had a 58-40 majority, and that was never enough to override the record number of filibusters put forth by the right.

Both parties are beholden to money. Thats not really up for debate. The only real difference between them is that the right is at least honest about their love of money, the left just hides behind cheap talk and then votes for the money. The right will at least tell you that their going to (*)(*)(*)(*) you over, the left gives you lip service and then they (*)(*)(*)(*) you over. While the leaders on the left tell you its about race, the leaders on the right tell you its about religion, while they both refuse to speak the truth that its almost always about class. They focus on "voter fraud", when we shouldn't be worried about those casting the vote, we should be worried about those COUNTING the votes. As long as they keep the masses against each other, it keeps the focus off of the real issues.

If you really want to fix this country, you must take money out of politics. Until you do that, its all just beating your head against a wall. Ask yourself how someone can spend 40-50 years working for the government and become a multimillionaire, while telling you and I that "government is bad" ?

The only thing that I have seen recently that makes me wonder if things can change is that most people do understand the problems in this country, they just disagree with how they should be fixed. The fact that the right and left both agree that we do have an oligarchy is good, the bad thing is that we only care that the other side has one

 

I love the candor and honesty of President Carter. He is a great man.

 

You do realize that by discriminating based on sex and orientation you're the one being divisive, right?

Only by eliminating homophobia and sexism can we all stand in solidarity. Only then can the workers overthrow our masters.

 

I do to.

I was late coming to it. I hated him as president and voted against him both times.

Lately, as I contemplate the Iran deal, I recall that I was thoroughly convinced that the Camp David Accords would unravel quickly and that Carter was a fool for even trying.

But they've held up as the single most effective thing done for the cause of Middle East peace in two generations. Nobody talks about Egypt and Isreal going to war anymore, even though they fought four wars (or was it five )between 1947 and 1977.

I think the same thing is going to happen with Iran. I think that bringing Iran back into the family of nations will restore a lot of stability to the Pesian Gulf eventually, once we've restored the Sunni/Shia balance that we upended when we decided to start a war in Iraq.