Margaret Sanger a Racist or Not?

Discussion in 'Debates & Contests' started by Fugazi, Jul 31, 2015.

  1. reallybigjohnson

    reallybigjohnson Banned

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    Once again, this isn't guilt by association, why do you keep claiming that it is. He was on the board or directors for the American Birth Control League. She founded the organization therefore she is the one that appoints the board that is how boards work. If she didn't want him there he wouldn't be there.

    You claim that the sources are biased then produce a source that says that Stoddard was NOT on the board of directors for the American Birth Control League.

    Maragaret Sanger was a vile disgusting racist and eugenicist who cloaked her work in faux altruism and she hired and promoted nationally published racists who believed that the colored races were inferior.
     
  2. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    Simply because it is, try looking up what guilt by association is it might help you out, it is also assuming the premise (Begging the question)

    You assume Sanger was racist because she had a racist on her board .. ie guilt by association

    You state that Sanger was a racist and yet you haven't been able to produce a single credible thing that shows your assertion to be true, ie you are begging the question.

    I have done no such thing.

    Then prove it because so far you have not proven anything but your own love of fallacies and confirmation bias.
     
  3. reallybigjohnson

    reallybigjohnson Banned

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    Yes you did claim that it was biased.
    You stated it yourself and you still don't get it. Stoddard wasn't just an acquaintance, he was actually chosen by her to serve on the board of directors for HER organization. I have lots of questionable friends who I would never in a million years trust to feed my cat if I went on vacation much less serve as a high ranking officer in my organization. By having him on that board she implied a high level of trust and obviosly she didn't have any issues with his racist policies.
     
  4. reallybigjohnson

    reallybigjohnson Banned

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    Oh and from your own archives set up to try and defend her along with the Feminist Law Archives...

    https://www.nyu.edu/projects/sanger/webedition/app/documents/show.php?sangerDoc=304923.xml

    But according to you she is not racist. :roll:
     
  5. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    """" It is said that the aboriginal Australian, the lowest known species of the human family, just a step higher than the chimpanzee in brain development, has so little sexual control that police authority alone prevents him from obtaining sexual satisfaction on the streets. """""

    "IT IS SAID" is not the same as "I say".....didn't you know that??? Did she go on to say," I agree" ??
     
  6. reallybigjohnson

    reallybigjohnson Banned

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    That's not how it works and you know it. You attempt at parsing is just laughable. For crying out loud she would have to put "and I agree" after everything she wrote by your logic. If she didn't agree with it then she wouldn't have included it in the first place or she would have said "but I disagree". If someone asks me which is the most reliable car and i say "They say Toyotas are the most reliable" they would assume that I agree with that statement or at the very least I am deferring to other people's judgement unless I added a qualifier. At no point would anyone think that I didn't think Toyotas were the most reliable unless I said so. I would have to state "but I think Hondas are the most reliable". I can't believe I am even explaining 3rd grade grammar.

    The absolute best case scenario is that she was deferring to other people on that subject. How is deferring that "aborigines are just one step above chimpanzees" according to other people any less racist?
     
  7. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    I was referring to your assertion that I produced a source stating Stoddard was NOT on the board of directors for the American Birth Control League, I did not produce any such source.

    I stated the sources you used were biased and they are, and I didn't say Stoddard was just an acquaintance .. why do you have to keep attempting to place words into my mouth?

    Prove it, you haven't produced anything that confirms it was Sanger who appointed him .. I am not asserting she didn't I am asking you for proof that she did.

    That is up to you, that does not mean all others think the same way as you.

    I would say it more than implies a high level of trust, and so what if she didn't have any issues with his racist policies .. were any of his policies implemented . .nope they were not.

    the more you post the more you show your obvious guilt by association fallacy.
     
  8. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    Try reading what it say, where does she state that it is her opinion.

    do you even know what the highlighted means?

    It is said - it is commonly reported; it is rumored; people assert or maintain. - http://www.thefreedictionary.com/It+is+said

    I do wish people would learn the English language and not just see what they want to see.

    She is referencing what other people say, not what she thinks herself.
     
  9. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    She neither agrees nor disagrees, you just chose to assume she agrees .. whether she agrees or not is not relevant to the context of the article which is about sexual impulses, her usage of those words is nothing more than one of examples to prove a point and in no way implies what her own ideology is. Learn to read things in context instead of reading to confirm your bias. She is merely stating what other people say, there is nothing in your quote or even in the whole article it is taken from that implies or states they are the thoughts or ideas of Sanger herself.
     
  10. reallybigjohnson

    reallybigjohnson Banned

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    Why was Stoddard on the board of the American Birth Control League or not? Answer that one simple question............of course you won't you will continue to deflect as usual. You made the claim that he wasn't appointed. The very link I provided said she appointed him I even bolded it for you. If you don't agree with it then it is on you to provide counter evidence. You don't just get to claim "Nananananana, I don't believe it so it must not be true" You actually have to provide evidence that counters what I put forth.
     
  11. reallybigjohnson

    reallybigjohnson Banned

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    What a pile of bull(*)(*)(*)(*). So on a whim she just willy nilly includes a reference about aborigines being one step above primates for no reason whatsoever because according to you she doesn't agree or disagree with it? Do you even realize how idiotic you sound right not making that argument. No one else reading that phrase reads it than anything other than her passive agreement to it.

    So tell me then why else would she include that phrase in her writings?

    This pathetic attempt at whitewashing that you and the other couple of posters are attempting is just embarrassing. Only a handful of the most vile, nutjob radical feminists believe that Sanger was anything other than a horrible person.
     
  12. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    I have NEVER claimed Stoddard was not on the board, stop making things up.

    and I did not make the claim he was not appointed, I asked you to provide proof that he was appointed by Sanger

    The link you provided hails from a biased source, just as the wiki article links to a source making a naked claim . .show me any correspondences where Sanger requests Stoddard to join the board, show me any minutes of meetings where he is proposed as a board member by Sanger.

    BTW asking to prove a negative is just another fallacy, along with the guilt by association and assuming the premise fallacies you have already used.

    and even if you could produce some evidence that it was Sanger who appointed Stoddard it does not change the reality that-that does not imply or go anywhere near proving Sanger was racist, to assert that without out solid evidence is nothing more than a guilt by association and assuming the premise fallacy.

    The fact you have to use out of context quotations, misrepresentation and fallacies to attempt to prove your point shows only your disregard for any intellectual honesty, where as I have actual quotes from Sanger (with no cherry picking, misrepresentation or the need to use them out of context) that show she deplored racism.
     
  13. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    So here we go again, you attempting to place words into my mouth and also being able to read the mind of a dead person, the only idiotic thing going on here is your radical zealot witch hunt to confirm your already preconceived bias. I included a reason for her including those words, but in your haste to do anything you can to demean others you obviously didn't bother to read it or simply ignored it - her usage of those words is nothing more than one of examples to prove a point

    I am not attempting to white wash Sanger at all, her eugenics ideology was disgusting - something I have repeated numerous times, though of course people like you just ignore that in your crusade, just because Sanger endorsed and promoted Eugenics does NOT mean she was racist.

    By your logic Lincoln was a racist simply because he appointed a known racist (Hinton Rowan Helper) to a prominent position within his government.
     
  14. reallybigjohnson

    reallybigjohnson Banned

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    You made the claim that she neither agreed or disagreed with it she only put it in there for some as yet unexplained reason. Why did she write that? If Trump goes up on stage and says "They say that Mexicans are responsible for lots of rapes." Everyone knows that he is in fact positing that as his argument unless he qualifies it with something like "I don't believe that is true". Sanger never said that. She just posted it and left it sitting there.

    Helper was invaluable to the war effort early on and he opposed slavery vociferously. Most people agree that his hatred of blacks AFTER the war was due to mental instability. His writings were rambling and often incoherent. He eventually committed suicide. If the best you can do is that Lincoln appointed a guy that turned out to be schizophrenic you are getting to the bottom of the barrel. Since you obviously went out of your way to google someone appointed by a popular icon who is racist you should have seen that since the 5 sources I looked up all said the same thing.

    http://muse.jhu.edu/login?auth=0&ty...rature_and_medicine/v029/29.1.weingarten.html


    [QUOTEand birth control activist Margaret Sanger asked Stoddard to join the board of the Birth Control League.][/QUOTE]
     
  15. reallybigjohnson

    reallybigjohnson Banned

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    Look more info on her courting racists including Sanger. The irony is that apparently the eugenicists saw her as to radical and out there and they rebuffed her despite her constant attempts to attract more racists specifically the American Eugenicis Society which at the time focused almost entirely on class and race based criteria.

    https://books.google.com/books?id=H...age&q=did sanger ask lothrop stoddard&f=false
     
  16. Albert Di Salvo

    Albert Di Salvo New Member

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    Would you support sterilization under any circumstances?

    Wasn't Margaret Sanger the editor and publisher of the review which published Lothrap Stoddard's racist articles? Why would she permit the articles of a known racist to be published?

    Could Lothrap Stoddard be appointed to the board of directors of an organization founded by Margaret Sanger without Sanger consent?
     
  17. Albert Di Salvo

    Albert Di Salvo New Member

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    By 1945 eugenics itself had been discredited. Sanger was merely part of the "me too" after the fact crowd.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Why did Sanger segregate the Negro Project from the predecessor of Planned Parenthood?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Why did Sanger appoint Stoddard to her board of directors?
     
  18. Albert Di Salvo

    Albert Di Salvo New Member

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    "It is said" is merely a rhetorical device...a manner of speech.
     
  19. Albert Di Salvo

    Albert Di Salvo New Member

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    Why did Sanger make reference to an Australian aborigine at all?
     
  20. Albert Di Salvo

    Albert Di Salvo New Member

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    In what ways could Stoddard have become a member of the board of directors of the American Birth Control League?
     
  21. Albert Di Salvo

    Albert Di Salvo New Member

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    So you admit that it was possible that Sanger was a eugenicist and a racist,

    ...and an advocate of the Comstock Act.
     
  22. Albert Di Salvo

    Albert Di Salvo New Member

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    That's immoral imo.




    Directors have fiduciary duties. Check this out:
    http://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2012/04/15/nonprofit-corporate-governance-the-boards-role/
     
  23. FoxHastings

    FoxHastings Well-Known Member

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    No, it is a statement. And it isn't , "I say" or "I believe" .....Did she go on to say," I agree" ??
     
  24. Albert Di Salvo

    Albert Di Salvo New Member

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    It's merely a method of introducing an idea with plausible deniability. It's the same way lawyers, diplomats, and politicians write and speak.
     
  25. Fugazi

    Fugazi New Member Past Donor

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    What has that got to do with the subject matter?

    Stoddard had ONE article published in The Birth Control Review, along with a book review and a citation showing his support for the Birth Control movement.

    Population Problems in Asia - http://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=coo.31924007352325;view=1up;seq=98 page 10

    A Review by Lothrap Stoddard of THE NEW DECALOGUE OF SCIENCE - http://library.lifedynamics.com/Birth Control Review/1925-04 April.pdf page 14

    Citation - http://library.lifedynamics.com/Birth Control Review/1928-08 August.pdf page 238

    Sources - https://www.lifedynamics.com/library/#

    Unlike you I actually research the things I say before saying them. I suggest you read the article and then you can point out the racist things in it that Sanger, as Editor, allowed to be printed. I'll give you a hint ... there isn't any.

    That is not what is being asserted here, the assertion is that Sanger appointed him .. stop moving the goalposts please.
     

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