The European / Syrian Refugee crisis

I'm sure there are SOME Syrians who hated America, just as there are SOME British and Canadian people who hate America. Really, you can find people who hate America in every country on the planet. But to claim that all Syrians have hated America is utter nonsense. Like every other country in the world, the majority of people living in Syria are just trying to put food on the table. And I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but just because the US government labels a country an "enemy" does not make it true.

They are suffering badly because the US government has caused them to suffer badly, and this will likely have severe and negative consequences for Americans going forward. But in their typical myopic fashion, most Americans cannot be bothered with the complex chain of cause and effect that precedes the inevitable blow-back caused by US government foreign policies. They just view these acts irrational aggression existing in isolation, spontaneously arising from the mist of Islamic theology. Granted, it's a much simpler, much more soothing narrative than the reality, so I can understand why so many people accept it.

 

I noticed you did not answer my question.

And my point is that in 2013 the US government was forced to admit the program was real. Up until that point, they were denying its existence.

Furthermore, the stories in 2006 were not nearly as in depth as the series of stories that have been released since 2013. The bulk collection of phone meta-data was only the tip of the iceberg.

So, unless you are claiming that something is automatically true if it's in "the newspapers", I'm not sure what your original point was supposed to be.

No. I'm saying that I believe it to be true, but I don't "know" if it's true because there is no smoking gun, so to speak. But that does not mean by position isn't supported by a large amount of evidence and logic, because it is. And if I needed to demonstrate my position using a "preponderance of the evidence" or even "beyond a reasonable doubt", I believe I could make that case.

Of course, you are free to ignore that evidence and logic, and to take the US government's claims at face value, despite their demonstrable dishonesty and corruption over many decades. Nobody can force you to use reason.

I'm sure you think so.

Yet you just made a claim that is absurd on its face, and refuse to admit to it. Not exactly the mark of an objective thinker.

 

There are more than a half million Syrians in the Gulf States and KSA has pledged 19 million $$ to the UN Syrian Relief Fun.

 

Not exactly.. Ghadaffi threw out Idris' enlightened Constitution and replaced it with his own "Green Book"...

Syria is run by the Alawites and Al Assad's family..

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Saudi Arabia and Qatar supported the FSA when Syria was still a rebellion against the abuses of Assad's hardliner uncles and his ruthless brother.

 

How incredibly cynical of the Saudi government, since they are responsible, along with the US government, for destabilizing Syria.

And then there is their monstrous campaign in Yemen, which is causing mass civilian causalities virtually every week.

 

Gaddafi voluntarily gave up his WMD stockpiles, and he became a key ally in the "war on terror". Now he's been replaced by a bunch of amorphous rebel groups with connections to AQ and ISIS.

I can't think of anything more cynical and unseemly than Saudi Arabia and Qatar crusading against abusive, ruthless governments in other countries.

 

Saudi didn't help destabilize Syria.. Assad is a back actor that's why he assassinated Refic Hariri.. KSA supported the FSA when it was still a rebellion.

As for Yemen.. Its been a mess since the 60s with the Communists, Royalists, AQ, Boko Haram, al Shabaab, al Houthis and assorted Somali pirates.

KSA relocated people away from the border and built a security fence in Asir 15 years ago to keep the bombers out and have spent a huge amount of money on education, healthcare, food, gasoline over the past 40 years.

 

I spent many years in Arabia.. and there are 40,000 Americans (with families) who love living there. They have an excellent government that is experienced and committed to insuring the social and economic progress of the Saudi people.

 

Our navy has been cut past the point where we have enough ships to help stop the invasion by catching and returning the invaders.

 

Like here, the politicians, media and existing PC groups solidly support unlimited Muslims but the public at large is solidly opposed so, the politicians do exactly what they want and ignore the citizens who have to pay for the invasion and live under the social upheaval that follows. At least our Latin American invaders work.

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Because we do not want them. If Europe wants to solve the problem, close their borders and patrol their seas.

 

Yeah.. Ghadaffi was scared he would end up like Saddam.. You have to remember that Cheney lobbied hard to get the sanctions lifted on Iran, Iraq, Libya and the Stans..

Ghadaffi was a trickster.. illiterate with a huge chip on his shoulder and very devious.. always threatening to assassinate someone for an imaginary slight... He funded rebel groups all over Africa. Why do you suppose his military and police were all African mercenaries? The tribes hated him.

 

When Bush left office, things were being managed. Obama fixed that.

 

In Libya when the country operated by Muammar Gaddafi so many guest workers — natives of the African and Arab countries worked that when in Tripoli military operations began, all hotels were closed in the city — the service personnel simply ran away. Benches and shops were closed, ceased to take out garbage and to clean roads, construction of big buildings stopped. Now — the empty, unfinished cities in vicinities of Benghazi and Tripoli. Railway line is rust.

The colonel warned participants of the summit about the future problems "Africa — the EU" in December, 2010. He declared that Libya isn't going to carry out a role of "a coast guard of Europe" free of charge any more. Also demanded from the European Union to transfer to its country five billion euros for creation of migratory service, refugee camps and additional workplaces, purchase of high-speed patrol boats and a radar. Otherwise, as declared to Gaddafi, "under the pressure of millions of Muslim migrants Europe will turn into Africa".

Representatives of the EU called a request excessive and agreed to allocate only 50 million euros.

Today very few people in Europe understand, than there was Libya and that Europe, bombing and ripping Libya to shreds - open road for refugees.

 

Perhaps but we are already living under Caligula....

 

You know that Maliki spent most of his life in Iran...

 

The people do...it is their media and leaders who refuse to see what is coming.

 

If that was the case their flight would end when they were no longer in danger but no...they want to go to the western welfare states, not for safety but for goodies.

Even the Hungarians have figured it out as they now 'help' the invaders across their country to Austria. If Germany wants to fund a few hundred thousand Muslims let them but don't force folk with more sense to destroy themselves as well.

 

Indeed that is true. The refugees are rather ungreatful so far when there is aid but rather get it elsewhere. None the less, there is a HUGE difference between those people who fled for their lives, and a South American going to the US for a job.

 

That is like blaming the allies for Germany crashing into total chaos in 1945...

 

But all (99%) refuse to actively decry radical Islam...

 

I could of swear, you were talking about government of North Korea... Nope, Saudi Arabia...

 

Are you saying the folk in the countries being invaded have no say in the matter. If they do, how long will they tolerate politicians who ignore them?

 

Yes, the difference is they always seem to flee for their lives to civilized western states far away instead of fine upstanding Muslim ones half the distance. Safety gets them moving but goodies provides the direction of that flight.

 

It is not. On two accounts. Last time I checked the US attacked Iraq because the US claimed it had WMD's. The people who the world agreed upon to check if it that was true, had the flee for the American violence heads over heals while they had nothing to point out the US was right. In the end, the US failed to provide any evidence that they were right. While nobody demanded this must be done. The contrary is even true.

Besides all that. It is currently according to the Geneva Conventions, that the occupying force is the party that is responsible for the security for the safety of the civilian population. And I dont think it's up for debate that despite the intentions of the US,.. they failed miserable on that account. And if you do not want that responsibility, than don't be the occupying power. And that failure on the security had lead to that ISIS got a whole leg in that country.

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Muslim countries have not signed the part that they must accept people who flee for war. (It has to do with Israel ethnic cleansing Palestinians and demanding other Arab states must absorb their Arabs to make their country more Jewish.) And European countries did sign it, hence it is their law to uphold.

 

Their track record over the past 70 years speaks for itself.. Have you ever wondered why KSA hasn't had the conflict and turmoil that Iran, Iraq and Syria have had over the years?