The European / Syrian Refugee crisis

It is the people of western European countries who are now leading efforts to accept refugees - their politicians have, in some case (the UK in particular) been fairly slow to respond to public demand. Welcoming Syrian refugees is 'people power' in action.

 

The UK parliament has its own petition site - any petition that gains over 100,000 signatures has to be considered for a parliamentary debate.

A petition saying this:

currently has 425,903 signatures.

Another petition, from the Independent newspaper, has 366,253 signatures.

These are huge numbers for any kind of petition in the UK. It is the people who are dragging the government along on welcoming refugees, not the other way around.

 

Wow...I was actually expecting those numbers to be higher considering the fact that there are at least 3.5 million Muslims in the UK.

 

The Arab Spring is a direct result of the Iraq war. It came about largely because the Arabs came to believe that America was going to invade them whenever they felt like it and no matter what they did. Nobody likes being seen as vassal states and that is the message of Iraq to the entire Arab and Islamic world

 

Those numbers on the UK petition site do not surprise me. Especially considering Cameron came across initially cold as far as the refugee crisis is concerned to both the left and the general public.

Here is my take on this situation from a British perspective, it is a chaotic complicated mess of a situation. We have to look at what the root cause of this is and I believe a huge part of it has to do with the West's intervention of the middle east for the past 10+ years. I see a lot of Bush vs Obama posts on the issue of who takes responsibility, the fact is both political parties and both the last two presidents as well as the leaders involved from Europe are to blame. Our act before we think foreign policy has helped destabilize the area and put Europe in a really compromising position.

It shouldn't be a muslim vs everyone else thing either, regardless of who it is these people are risking their lives travelling thousands of miles to get Europe. That is no joke and shouldn't taken lightly. I cannot speak for what the US's role should be in all this but I do believe Britain can do more. However the left does not seem to realize that allowing more into the country is a short term solution to what will become a long term problem. An open door immigration policy for the Syrians at the end of the day does not answer the main problem which is ISIS and it's allies. The fact we've funded and armed these groups for years and practically created our own enemies (A mistake we seem to be making far too often).

We, Britain need a policy which does a share of the refugees but that is action that brings a stable and safe transition for these people and not the chaos we've seen in Eastern Europe. We also need a policy that gives us an idea of who is coming, for too long the country has called for control of it's borders and governments time and time again have failed. It's even more critical in a situation like this. At the end of the day we cannot have an open door policy, not just because it's not the long term solution but the high risk of seeing more of the scenes of desperate refugees either getting seriously hurt or dying trying to come to Western Europe. Minimizing this should be the number #1 priority.

As far as actually solving this complicated mess, the problem as I said is ISIS. But we need to think and have a strategy first dealing with these groups and not just rush in with bombs and troops on the ground. For too long, we've had a gun ho foreign policy where we'd rather start a war than try and bring about peace. A political solution may be needed here, I'm not talking about talking to ISIS because you can't negotiate with people like that but other powers round the Middle East to try and not only bring an end to this crisis but also bring about an end to ISIS and it's allies.

 

You don't got that right to do so.

This has very little to do with the initial discussion of that the US is responsible for the creation of ISIS. Besides that you branding refugees as invaders, just like they are the US army invading Iraq and occupies it is exactly the same,.. is rather juvenile.

 

Only a fool would buy what you are selling here. The Arab / Muslim nations have never taken in refugees. They have treated Palestinians like crap since before Israel.

Also, these people are not assimilating as you should when you come to a new country. Instead they are taking over areas, running off natives, and pushing Sharia Law.

 

As far as I know there is not a poll out there that shows majority support in any country for this unending and unlimited invasion...yes there is an industry, like the race, environment, or immigration industries here, that loads the airways with pro invasion propaganda but the people themselves are far less enthusiastic...

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isn't the population of the UK something like 58 million indicating that the petition is supported by less than 1% of the population.

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but accurate...what do you call a mass movement of folk arriving uninvited and demanding stuff from the citizens...

 

Nah.. The Saudis have been funding the Palestinians since 1948 and even when I was a kid there were some 40,000 Palestinians in Arabia..

 

Closer to 65 million. The number of Muslims doubled between 2001 and 2011. Officially figures state around 4 million Muslims. Some more realistic estimates put the number of Muslims in the UK closer to 5 million. And there are many illegals which are not taken into account. They're illegally entering the country as we speak. It's easy to get lost in London.

 

but it is the simple truth that arab states have not signed the refugee treaty, unlike european countries. hence they are not bound by it. To say they treated pallies badly before the jews ethnic cleansed them, is just weird and makes no sense other than its bigotry

 

Even though the whole stupid Iraq "adventure" was misguided from day-one, the truth is that by the end of Idiot Bush's eight years, the situation in Iraq was fairly stable. Sure, the rotten toad, Maliki, was doing the bidding of his Shi'a buddies in Iran, and that was made clear by his suppression of the Sunni minority, but at least there were only normal levels of corruption, graft, theft, revenge-murders, etc. In other words, we "had a lid on it".

Then, along came Obama, who peevishly yanked everybody out of Iraq, creating the perfect festering vacuum for a bunch of Islamo-Nazis like ISIS to grow in. Now that we've gotten that much straight, let's move on to the "refugee crisis". It's not that hard.

Open your doors, open your windows, leave them open, and observe what happens. All kinds of creatures can enter when you do this. Now, if the creatures come pouring in, is it your fault for leaving your house wide open, or is it your neighbor's fault, or the fault of the guy down the street, or is it Nature's fault for giving the creatures the inquisitive kind of instinct to seek a possibly abundant supply of food, shelter, and other comforts...? If the Germans and Austrians want to throw open their borders to tens of thousands of illegal migrants, that's their business entirely!

The only real answer to this problem is for the United States to join forces with Russia and totally CLEAN HOUSE in the Middle East! But, that isn't going to happen. Oh, we could do it together, and it wouldn't take more than a year from start to finish.

Instead, we'll do NOTHING about ANYTHING in the Middle East until we finally get rid of Obama, and that won't be until noon on January 20, 2017. Meanwhile, the Russians are sending in their own military forces, in Syria. Thus, what we're seeing is that Vladimir Putin may be the "White Knight" who saves people in the Middle East from the murdering maniacs who run ISIS. Meanwhile, President Golf Club will continue chasing his big agenda to wreck inexpensive utility plants in the United States, and, playing with himself (golf... of course)....

"I suggested a red SHIRT, ya dumbass -- not a red LINE!"

 

Obama wasn't being "peevish".. Bush had handed off sovereignty to Iraq and we couldn't have US troops tried in Iraqi courts.. Huge difference from your claims.

 

The Arab Spring is the result of the Iraq War? Hmmm. the only ones I've heard make that argument was Dick Cheney and the guys at The Weekly Standard. The neo cons will be pleased since that was their plan.

 

It's how we role in this country. Blame ISIS on Obama, blame immigration on the illegals; http://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/us-interventions-in-latin-american-021/, blame the first Iraq war on Saddam, when Bush I was in bed with Kuwait with his oil buddies while they slant drilled for oil on Iraqi soil, blame Saddam for having chemical weapons we sold him, blame Saddam for WMD's he never had while we lied our way into the second Iraq war; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5FaMbnINwc, and the list goes on and on, and on. While the real one's to blame for all the foreign policy problems we have, is "OURSELVES". And when all is said and done, we do nothing to help those we affected. Since Plymouth Rock, this country hasn't changed a bit. We exploit, invade, murder, enslave, steal, rape, overthrow other countries for our benefit, and there is never ever, any accountability on our part, to fix it. It's why we are hated so much.

 

Funny thing I watched a clip of a Cheney interview from 1994 and he sure changed his tune.. At that time he was opposed to war on Iraq and reckless decisions about the ME.

 

Go read about Islam and you will see the Iraq war had nothing to do with any of this.... There have been conservative bat(*)(*)(*)(*) crazy Islamic radicals out there since Muhammad graced his precense... The (*)(*)(*)(*)ing Sphinx's nose is gone for a reason.... Go read Sayyid Qutb - and you will (*)(*)(*)(*)ing realize there has been a war on the west by conservative Muslims for quite sime time - going all the way back to 1900 at the very least...

Problem is progressives know nothing....

These people were hijacking planes in the 70's...

These people have always been radical..... Did Bush create the Nation of Islam too?

 

Of course, he didn’t much care about stopping the tyrannical Hussein in 1994, when he said that invading Iraq would obviously result in a quagmire:


Once you got to Iraq and took it over, took down Saddam Hussein’s government, then what are you going to put in its place? That’s a very volatile part of the world, and if you take down the central government of Iraq, you could very easily end up seeing pieces of Iraq fly off: part of it, the Syrians would like to have to the west, part of it — eastern Iraq — the Iranians would like to claim, they fought over it for eight years. In the north you’ve got the Kurds, and if the Kurds spin loose and join with the Kurds in Turkey, then you threaten the territorial integrity of Turkey.

Volatile indeed.

Today, we can see that Cheney’s 1994 assumption was accurate, but when asked on Wednesday whether the Middle East, more unstable than ever, is safer without Saddam in power, he replied that it was. It’s as if he is trying to convince himself what he knows in his new transplanted heart to be untrue.

[video=youtube;S9YuD9kYK9I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S9YuD9kYK9I[/video]

 

Yeah, like I said, Maliki took over, started persecuting the Sunni minority, and the rest is history. I didn't focus on the microscopic aspect of the thing, but you're right. Nevertheless, I surely was not wrong about 99% of what I DID say. Did Obama pull the last U. S. military forces out of Iraq? Uh-huh... thank you.

And you know what? I don't care! Our approach to ALL of these Islamo-pestholes should be simple and clear-cut: "You leave us alone, and we leave you alone. We can do business and coexist with each other. Have your "Islamic Republic" or whatever pleases you -- but don't (DON'T) ever do anything that threatens the existence of the United States or we will send your country back to that mythic 10th Century that you seem to think so highly of....:"

If Germany, France, Britain, Austria, etc., want to throw their borders open like Obama threw ours open for everybody in Mexico and Central America to wander in from, then so be it. We'll see how well this wonderous Islamo-European "utopia" is working a few months from now....

Next, they'll probably go ahead and build this Mega-Mosque in Cologne, Germany....

 

I saw that clip too. He did change his tune.

 

Sayyid Qutb had his reasons, of course.

 

George Bush stopped Saddam from invading Kuwait - or better yet kicked his ass out of a country he had no business invading..... We kicked his ass out and then W or better yet our military found him and let his own people hang him for crimes against humanity... Saddam and his sons were sick and twisted dictators that ruled like Stalin and Saddam got everything he deserved... His sons to boot....

 

Yea, he had an issue with progressive liberal ideas and believed they corrupted Islamic countries - Which is ironic considering western progressives support crazy conservative Islamic ideas....

 

Sayyid Qutb and the Sphinx's nose?

Most Muslims aren't radical... You ever live anywhere in the Arab world?

 

Opposing moral philosophies isn't the only thing on the list. His anymosity towards the West was mostly based on the latter's actions in the East, particularly of its support for Israel.