Abu Mazen didnt satisfied with the statement in the UN about his will to abort Oslo Accords + inciting in the West Bank in the PA T.V. with progrems and children T.V. shows that spesified that all of the Land of Israel is belong to the Muslims, but also Abu Mazen wrote an open letter and published in in his Facebook page in Arabic that whole of the territory from the rier to the sea is "occupied" and thus need to be liberated from the Israeli hands. As you can read, Abu Mazen as well wrote that the recognition of "Palestine" as a state in the UN is only strengthens the "Palestinian" claim that, as Abu Mazen put it, whole of the Land of Israel is "occupied" (AKA the '48 borders). It is of course not new statements from Abu Mazen. On the PA T.V. progrems we all can notice such thinking: Also the "Palestinian" newspepers are referring to their leaders as "leaders of the Palestinian territories occupied in 1948." Source: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/161227#.ViZeDjGsVT8 I think that the international media does not publish such things and will not publish, probably, this letter of Abu Mazen. This kind of thinking as Abu Mazen presents in his letter, is an adherence to the Fatah's Treaty, which calls for the destruction of Israel.
I wonder what part of "liberation of all of historic Palestine" the pro Palestinian/anti Zionist crowd don't understand? From the moment Israel won its war of independence, that has been the arab objective. Its only after severe and repeated beatings, did Jordan and Egypt overtly give up on such a plan.
And the "Palestinians" has this plan from day one. For the"Palestinians" all the land of "Palestine" (= the Land of Israel) is Wakf land, which means this land is an Islamic land that cant be trasferred to anyone. This land is an Islamic land that belong solely to the Muslims.
Abu Mazen in his speech in the UN told that he is willing to abort Oslo Accords. Netanyahu in 1996 and in 1997 made Wye and Hebron Agreement, which followed Oslo Accords.
and in 2010, Bibi said he killed the Oslo accords: [video=youtube;JaIQHWfj5f4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JaIQHWfj5f4[/video]
Bibi in this video did not say that he killed Oslo, but he said that until he signed Hebron Agreement then it made the procces that Oslo started to stop. That's it.
No, he said that until he approved the fulfillment of the Hebron Agreement, the procces that Oslo started was stopped.
Beside saying "Why does this matter? Because at that moment I actually stopped the Oslo accords.” He also stated “The trick,” he says, “is not to be there [in the occupied territories] and be broken; the trick is to be there and pay a minimal price.” The “trick” that stopped further withdrawals, Mr Netanyahu adds, was to redefine what parts of the occupied territories counted as a “specified military site” under the Oslo accords. He wanted the White House to approve in writing the classification of the Jordan Valley, a large area of the West Bank, as such a military site. The Hebron agreement was pretty much worthless as it left Jewish version of Neo-Nazi settlers(protected by Israeli soldiers) in Kiryat Arba there. Also in your speech you cited you claimed Abbas called for all of Palestine to be liberated, in what you quoted he never said that, what you quoted is below "in an open letter penned to the residents of Gaza, PA President Mahmoud Abbas spoke about Israel's claim to land obtained before 1967 and touched on the PA's upcoming request from the General Assembly to grant it "super-observer" status, writing on his Facebook page, "Our land was conquered and it is not disputed territory and this is true of all of the land that Israel conquered before June 1967."Abbas' statements were repeated in official PA media and translated by Palestinian Media Watch. "The recognition of [the State of Palestine at the UN] will not free the ground the next day, but it will prove our just cause that our land is occupied and not disputed territory, and this is true in regards to all of the territories Israel occupied before June 1967." In this letter to Gaza(which is ruled by Hamas) he says all of Palestine was conquered(which is false with Israel fighting to survive to become independent and capturing territories as result of defensive 67 war) and isn't disputed territory. He claims that UN recognition of state of Palestine will valid this. It won't, Israel within green lines is indisputable and is here to stay; no Arab will change that. This letter seems like a poor attempt by Abbas to increase credibility due to most people correctly viewing him as corrupt autocratic leader. "And the "Palestinians" has this plan from day one. For the"Palestinians" all the land of "Palestine" (= the Land of Israel) is Wakf land, which means this land is an Islamic land that cant be trasferred to anyone. This land is an Islamic land that belong solely to the Muslims. " This was true during Khartoum three no's resolution era and Arafat era but not anymore. All countries of the organization of Islamic cooperation back Arab peace initiative which was amended to include land swaps. Both Egypt and Jordan have peace treaties with Israel. Israel maintains unofficial relations with Persian Gulf countries. Abbas accepted most of Olmert's terms during 2008 talks including Israel annexing all of settlement blocs except for Ariel which sits on fertile land reserves and both sides they admitted they were months away from a deal(despite this BIbi has refused to go back to these terms). http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/13/magazine/13Israel-t.html?_r=0 "This kind of thinking as Abu Mazen presents in his letter, is an adherence to the Fatah's Treaty, which calls for the destruction of Israel. " It doesn't. Those articles in their charter that call that are cancelled. As mentioned before this is according to your own prime minister, Natan Sharansky, late Ariel Sharon, and former minister Yitzhak Moredechai. If it didn't then Bibi and others(Israelis would also be pressuring government to call PA to amend charter) would call for charter to be amended.
Nothing here contradict what Bibi said in the video that Ronstar provided. He clearly stated that until he signed Hebron Agreement then it made the procces that Oslo started to stop. Bibi in the video that Ronstar provided didnt say that he "killed Oslo". BTW- please dont cpmpare the settlers with the Nazis (you said "Neo-Nazi settlers"). This kind of compersion is hurting the memory of the holocaust. The letter that he sent to the Gazans clearly spesified that according to him, the land of '48 borders are all "occupied" and thus should be liberated. Here is a video that shows Yusuf Abu Snina the PA cleric talks about "Palestine" and it is a Waqf land: [video=youtube;kKji7qlXcq4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKji7qlXcq4[/video] Fatah central committee member ‘Azzam Al-Ahmad declared in 2009 that the Fatah Charter has never been ammanded: The "Palestinian" National Council did meet in Gaza, 1996 and did voted to amend the Charter, but it was never happened. There was only a voting on the subject, but never actions to amend. According to the Palestinian Authority's Ministry of Information in a report from 1999 mentioned that the Fatah Charter has yet to be amended: This kind of statment was later on in 2009 was anounced by Azzam Al-Ahmad that the Fatah Charter remains as it was. Source: http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/853668C3E95F8E0685257855005658 76
"In letter that he sent to the Gazans clearly spesified that according to him, the land of '48 borders are all "occupied" and thus should be liberated." Nowhere in letter does it say all should liberated. In it he's saying he views all of historic Palestine as occupied not disputed land. You don't show any quote from letter that he is actually calling for all territory to be liberated. "Here is a video that shows Yusuf Abu Snina the PA cleric talks about "Palestine" and it is a Waqf land:" The speech was made in September 2000 during Arafat era which Arafat never completely gave up use of violence against Israelis. http://www.palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=1062&doc_id=1216 "Nothing here contradict what Bibi said in the video that Ronstar provided. He clearly stated that until he signed Hebron Agreement then it made the procces that Oslo started to stop. Bibi in the video that Ronstar provided didnt say that he "killed Oslo"." You are correct that in the video Bibi didn't say he destroyed agreement. However my contention wasn't that, contention is that Bibi wasn't sincere about following Oslo Accords or serious compromise on West Bank which is noted in the video when he says "What were the Oslo accords? The Oslo accords, which the Knesset signed, I was asked, before the elections: “Will you act according to them?” and I answered: “Yes, subject to reciprocity and limiting the withdrawals.” But how do you limit the withdrawals? I interpret the accords in such a way that will enable me to stop this rush towards the 1967 borders. [So] how do we do it? [Narrator] The Oslo accords stated at the time that Israel would gradually hand over territories to the Palestinians in three different stages, unless the territories in question had settlements or military sites. This is where Netanyahu found a loophole. [Natanyahu] No one said what defined military sites. Defined military sites, I said, were security zones. As far as I’m concerned, the Jordan Valley is a defined military site. [Woman] Right [laughs]. The Beit She’an settlements. The Beit She’an Valley. [Natanyahu] How can you tell. How can you tell? But then the question came up of just who would define what defined military sites were. I received a letter – to me and to Arafat, at the same time … which said that Israel, and only Israel, would be the one to define what those are, the location of those military sites and their size. Now, they did not want to give me that letter, so I did not give the Hebron agreement. I stopped the government meeting, I said: “I’m not signing.” Only when the letter came, in the course of the meeting, to me and to Arafat, only then did I sign the Hebron agreement, or rather, ratify it. It had already been signed. Why does this matter? Because at that moment I actually stopped the Oslo accord." http://www.redressonline.com/2010/0...anyahu-i-deceived-us-to-destroy-oslo-accords/ "BTW- please dont cpmpare the settlers with the Nazis (you said "Neo-Nazi settlers"). This kind of compersion is hurting the memory of the holocaust." How does that hurt the memory of the holocaust? I didn't call all the settlers(indeed most settlers are moderate and don't go there for ideological reasons with most of the settlers in settlement blocs which they go for financial reasons) Neo- Nazis I was referring to Kiryat Arba as Jewish version of Neo-Nazis which is an accurate description. This is a community that widely admires Meir Kahane who called for all Arabs including Israeli citizens to be expelled from Israel and also admires Baruch Goldstein who massacred 29 Arabs in Hebron. Chief rabbi of Kiryat Arba's yeshiva Dov Lior in 2007 stated "We must cleanse the country of Arabs and resettle them in the countries where they came from." He endorsed King's Torah which condones killing non Jews including children. In an a comparison that hurts memory of holocaust Dov Lior called Baruch Goldstein holier than victims of the holocaust(despite mentioning this multiple times that has never galled you). In 2008 Lior in a rabbinical ruling said it was forbidden by Jews to employ Arabs or rent homes from them. Lior was part of ceremony supporting a settler(with other settler identity unknown) convicted of tying up an Arab youth beating him up, bound him, fired their guns close to him, stripped him naked, and left him at side of the road. Some of the settlers constantly attack Arabs such as nine of their homes firebombed in the past 3 years, their olive trees often destroyed(which for many Arabs is their livelihood), settlers often injuring or even killing Arabs(for example 24 killed due to shooting and vehicular attacks between 2004-2011). In a report called "When settlers attack" Kiryat Arba is listed as the most dangerous settlement. http://imeu.org/article/state-sanctioned-incitement-israels-extremist-rabbis http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/31/israel-talk-is-cheap-price-tag-violence Lastly here is excerpt from J.J. Goldberg's 2004 attack called Among the settlers and notes what happens when he visits Kiryat Arba "In a late winter’s day, a slight, blue-eyed boy rode a bicycle down an empty street in the militant Jewish ghetto of Hebron, in the West Bank. Clipped to the boy’s hair was a green kipa, crocheted and oversized in the style of the settlers. A damp wind was blowing, and a bank of clouds hovered over the city, but the boy was jacketless. Scattered piles of rubble and garbage, flecked with broken glass, lined the road. The buildings along what the Jews call King David Street and the Arabs call Martyrdom Street are tightly packed and decaying. The Jews live mainly on the east side of the street, and the Arabs live to the west. When I visited, much of the area was under curfew. The Jewish zone, where some Arabs live, is “sterile,” a soldier told me: only Arabs who hold the proper pass are allowed to enter. The soldier, a paratrooper in the Israeli Army’s Fighting Pioneer Youth Brigade, was guarding Hadassah House, a three-story building where several families of settlers live. A brigade of soldiers, coils of razor wire, and hundreds of concrete barriers stand between Hebron’s fewer than eight hundred Jewish settlers and its hundred and fifty thousand Arab residents. Across from Hadassah House is a school for Arab girls, called Córdoba, after the once-Muslim Spanish city. On one of its doors someone had drawn a blue Star of David. On another door a yellowing bumper sticker read, “Dr. Goldstein Cures the Ills of Israel.” The reference is to Baruch Goldstein, a physician from Brooklyn, who, in 1994, killed twenty-nine Muslims when they were praying in the Tomb of the Patriarchs, just down the road. Across the closed door of a Palestinian shop someone had written, in English, “Arabs Are Sand (*)(*)(*)(*)(*)(*)s.” Jewish invective is answered by Muslim insults; over another door was a hand-painted verse from the Koran, attesting to the undying perfidy of the Jews. Nearby, peeling off a wall, was a poster dedicated to a ten-month-old Jewish girl named Shalhevet Pass, who was shot through the head three years ago by a Palestinian sniper. “May God Avenge Her Blood,” it read. Pass’s father is in jail in Israel; last July, the police found eight bricks of explosives in the trunk of his car. A group of yeshiva students appeared, walking in the direction of the Tomb of the Patriarchs, a two-thousand-year-old stone palace. It sits atop the cave in which, tradition holds, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and their wives are buried. It is because of the tomb that Hebron is considered a holy city. The yeshiva boys wore flannel shirts and jeans. They had the wispy beards of young men who have never shaved. Two Arab girls, their heads covered by scarves, books clutched to their chests, left the Córdoba School, and were walking toward the yeshiva boys. “(*)(*)(*)(*)s!” one of the boys yelled, in Arabic. “Do you let your brothers (*)(*)(*)(*) you?” another one yelled. I stopped one of the students and asked why he was cursing the girls. He was red-faced, and his black hair was covered with a blue knit skullcap. “What are you, a goy?” he asked. The girls fled down the street, and the boys disappeared. I asked the soldier guarding Hadassah House why he hadn’t intervened. “They didn’t hurt them,” he said. The boy on the bicycle circled toward me and asked what I was doing there. I told him that I was waiting for a woman named Anat Cohen. He said that she was his mother, and that she had just gone to the market. Then he pedalled away, toward barricades at the end of the street. Cohen pulled up a few minutes later, in a station wagon, its windshield cracked from stone-throwing attacks. She is one of the leaders of the Hebron Jews. A short woman in her early forties, she had a taut, windburned face and muscular arms, and her fingernails were chewed and dirty. As we walked through her front door, into a stone-walled living room, I asked her how she could let her son play amid the barbed wire and soldiers and barricades, and with snipers in the hills above. “Hebron is ours,” she said. “Why shouldn’t he play?” “Because he could get killed,” I said. “There’s a bullet out there for each one of us,” she said. “But you can always die. At least his death here would sanctify God’s name.” Cohen and other settlers say that they are obliged to fulfill God’s command that Jews settle the land of Israel. But there are safer places to live than King David Street in Hebron. I asked Cohen how she reconciled her decision to settle here with an even greater imperative of Judaism, the saving of lives—in this case, those of her children. She glared at me. “Hellenizers”—secular Jews—“will never understand,” she said with contempt. Anat Cohen is known, even among Hebron’s Jews, who are some of the least placatory of all the settlers, for her ferocity. According to Army commanders, she has cursed and insulted soldiers, and assaulted Arabs. The first time we met, she told me that she was a soldier of God. Cohen has about ten children—like certain religious Jews, she refused to specify the number, in order to confuse the evil eye. The Cohen house is cramped and dark, and there are few toys. On one wall hangs a framed photograph of Meir Kahane, the zealot rabbi from Brooklyn, who advocated the expulsion of all Arabs from Israel. Behind a stone pillar hangs a photograph of Baruch Goldstein, with the inscription “The Saint Dr. Goldstein.” A candle burned in a makeshift shrine, in memory of Cohen’s brother, Gilad Zar. He was the security chief of the settlements in Samaria, the territory of the northern West Bank. He was killed three years ago by terrorists. Cohen’s one-year-old son, who is named after her late brother, burst into the room, spilling Cheerios. Cohen swept him off the floor, and said, “You don’t live just to keep living. That’s not the point of life.” In an earlier conversation, we had talked about Abraham’s willingness to sacrifice his son Isaac, at God’s command; only God’s intervention saved Isaac. Cohen admired Abraham’s dedication, unabashedly. She was, I came to see, suffering from something that could be called a Moriah complex. Mt. Moriah, in Jerusalem, is the traditional site of the binding of Isaac, and symbolizes a Jew’s absolute devotion to even the most inexplicable and cruel demands of God. The First and Second Jewish Temples rose on Mt. Moriah. So, later, did the Dome of the Rock, built on the site from which, Muslims believe, Muhammad ascended to Heaven. (In Cohen’s house, there is an image of the Temple Mount in which the Dome of the Rock has been replaced by a rendering of an imagined Third Temple, which, tradition holds, will rise when the Messiah comes.) The Moriah complex is characterized by a desire to match Abraham’s devotion to God, even at the price of a child’s life. Cohen brought up the story, from the Second Book of the Maccabees, of a God-loving mother of seven boys, partisans in the Jewish revolt against Hellenistic rule twenty-two hundred years ago. The boys were called before King Antiochus, who ordered them to eat swine, as a loyalty test. The sons refused. “Do you know what the Greeks did to these boys?” Cohen asked. “They ripped out their tongues and boiled them alive.” Just before the last son was martyred, the mother gave him a message to deliver in Heaven: “Go and say to your father Abraham, ‘Thou didst bind one son to the altar, but I have bound seven altars.’ ” After the seventh son was killed, the mother threw herself off a roof. The Talmud says that, on her death, a voice was heard from Heaven, singing, “A happy mother of children.” One afternoon, I went to the Tomb of the Patriarchs. The detachment of Border Police that day was commanded by an Ethiopian immigrant who was wearing a knit kipa. He seemed tense; Rabbi Levinger, he said, was inside. Moshe Levinger, who is in his sixties, is Hebron’s first Jewish settler, a fierce man, and a source of vexation for the Army and the police. A flight of broad stone steps leads to the main hall of the tomb. The Muslim rulers of Hebron once banned Jews from climbing higher than the seventh step. Levinger was the first modern-day Jewish settler in Hebron, but there were Jews in Hebron before Islam was founded. In 1929, a pogrom erased the Jewish presence, when sixty-seven Jews were murdered by their Arab neighbors. The British, then in charge of Palestine, removed the Jewish survivors from Hebron, for their own safety. I entered the main prayer hall. Benches that had been placed in rows in front of an Ark were mostly empty. Elderly men prayed alone. Underneath the stone floor, in the double-chambered Cave of the Machpelah, the bones of the Jewish patriarchs and matriarchs are said to rest. According to Genesis, Abraham bought the cave as a burial place for his wife, Sarah. It was his first, fateful purchase of land in Canaan. Rabbi Levinger approached. For many years, he has been the face of the settlement movement, which is no favor; his head is small, but his eyes are bulbous and his teeth outsized. His voice is deep, and his beard seems constructed of iron shavings. I said hello. He grunted a reply. I told him that the police seemed uneasy about his presence in the tomb, and I asked whether they were worried that he would lash out at the Palestinians. “The Arabs know to behave like good boys around us,” he said. Levinger first came to Hebron in 1968, after Israel seized the West Bank in the Six-Day War. He rented rooms in an Arab hotel, in order to hold a Passover Seder. Then he refused to leave. He struck a deal with the Israeli government, and moved his family and his followers to a hill just northeast of Hebron, where, with the state’s coöperation, they built the settlement called Kiryat Arba. There are now seven thousand settlers there. In 1979, his wife, Miriam, led a group of settler women in an unruly takeover of the Hadassah House building. The squatters stayed, and a community grew up around them. In 1988, Levinger killed a Palestinian shoe-store owner in Hebron. Levinger told the police that he was defending himself from a group of stone throwers. He served thirteen weeks in an Israeli jail for the killing. He told me once, “I’m not happy when any living creature dies—an Arab, a fly, a donkey.” In the Israel he envisaged, Levinger said, Arabs would be allowed to stay only so long as they “behave themselves. Foreign residents”—Levinger’s designation for Arabs—“will be allowed to stay in Israel if they follow our laws and don’t demand privileges.” He added that they might vote “for mayors and such” but not for Prime Minister. He did not believe that the Arabs would acquiesce to such an arrangement, and that is why he advocated “transfer”—a euphemism for mass expulsion. “Whoever hurts Jews will be expelled,” he said." http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2004/05/31/among-the-settlers Again community with Jewish version of Neo Nazis whose leader for their Yeshiva calls for for non Jews including children to be killed, who held ceremony supporting settler convicted for tying up and beating an Arab leaving him at side of a road, who calls Baruch Goldstein a person that massacred 29 Arabs holier than victims of the holocaust a community that is most known for constantly attacking Arabs often resulting in injury or even death, and a community that openly admires Meir Kahane who called for all Arabs including Israeli Arabs to be expelled and Baruch Goldstein who massacred 29 Arabs left in middle of a city(Hebron) that is majority Arab and guarded by your military makes Hebron agreement pointless. "Fatah central committee member ‘Azzam Al-Ahmad declared in 2009 that the Fatah Charter has never been ammanded: The "Palestinian" National Council did meet in Gaza, 1996 and did voted to amend the Charter, but it was never happened. There was only a voting on the subject, but never actions to amend. According to the Palestinian Authority's Ministry of Information in a report from 1999 mentioned that the Fatah Charter has yet to be amended: This kind of statment was later on in 2009 was anounced by Azzam Al-Ahmad that the Fatah Charter remains as it was." Your prime minster and others disagree with even your link noting "President Clinton declared to the Palestinian National Council in Gaza (14 December 199 “I thank you for your rejection—fully, finally and forever—of the passages in the Palestinian Charter calling for the destruction of Israel. For they were the ideological underpinnings of a struggle renounced at Oslo. By revoking them once and for all, you have sent, I say again, a powerful message not to the government, but to the people of Israel. You will touch people on the street there. You will reach their hearts there. Like President Clinton, Israel and the Likud party now formally agreed that the objectionable clauses of the charter had been abrogated – in official statements and statements by then Prime Minister Netanyahu, Foreign Minister Sharon, Defense Minister Mordechai and Trade and Industry Minister Sharansky. The official Israeli objections to the Charter disappeared thereafter from lists of Palestinian violations of agreements and the international legal controversy ended. " Bibi and others would be calling for Abbas to amend charter if it wasn't amended.If charter wasn't amended why don't you and other Israelis pressure Israeli government( for example call, write PM and/or parties like Likud) to demand for Abbas to amend charter?
Re-read the thread. You also wrote it in your previous comment. Does not contradict that this PA cleric referred "Palestine" as Waqf land Does not contradict the fact that he never said in the video that he "killed Oslo. Moreover, Bibi stated in the video that he will act according to them, hence, your claim that "he wasnt sincere about following Oslo" is not true according to the video that Ronstar provided. We are living in 2015, and not in 2007 nor in 2004. Please stay focus on the year that we are living at. Let us not forget as well that the book of Mein Kampf, where Hitler detailed about the Nazi agenda, is a best-seller in the Arab countries and not in Kiryat Arba. As I already showed you from the link I provided and which talked in parts of it about the meeting of 1998: As you can read according to a report from 199 of the "Palestinian" Authority's Ministary of Information spesified there that the Fatah's Charter has yet to be amended.
Does not contradict in any way what I just wrote. "Waqf Lands" are lands that can be devided nor be transferred to other people. Those kind of lands or solely belong to the Muslims, and other presence which is not Muslim is violation the purpose of "Waqf Lands", and thus the Muslims must defend their "Waqf Lands", until the foriegn power would leave the territory.
The Jews were never a majority in Palestine.. Have you read "As an Arab Sees the Jews"? The problem wasn't that the Jewish immigrants were Jews.. The problem was that they were Europeans and socialists who didn't speak Arabic and despised Arab culture. http://www.kinghussein.gov.jo/kabd_eng.html
the Jews were the majority of Jerusalem by 1880. - - - Updated - - - the legal right? yes. keep in mind, there have always been thousands of Jews in Palestine, even when they were no longer the majority in the 6th century.
