22 Israelis murdered 180 wounded during the last two months

Not secret. A just solution is what I want. I have said to you before there is one of two options - either honour Oslo and return to behind 67 boundaries with minor swaps or accept that there will be one country, everyone citizenship with equal rights for all. This has certainly looked the most likely future although Israel appears to be trying an end game of getting as much land and facts on the ground as possible while also trying to censure/criminalise opposition.

The Zionist association became the main spokesperson for Jews quite early on - this is noted in the refusal of several plans which might have saved some. Being so they simply made their views known as I indicated in previous post and then refused to attend and opposed through lobby other opportunities for Jews such as the plan I mentioned in above post. According to L the Zionists quickly learned the power of propaganda in democratic America and used this to the full on both public opinion and politicians.

He notes how by I think it was 43 the Zionist organisation was getting four times more donations from the American Public than the Red Cross - in war time!! Did you for instance know that non other than the Stern Gang or maybe it was the Irgun was a front to most of the voluntary organisations for helping European Jews in the United states and that the money collected was used for Israel getting weapons, training and so on. Most American Jews as well as Americans in general were unaware that this was what was going on. Lilienthal speaks of the Zionist lobby and how they infiltrated just about every political avenue and of course got Christians on side who he particularly says were unaware of the terrorism and plight of the Palestinians. I have before read that it wasn't until around the second WW that American Jews started moving towards Zionism which was being presented as the only hope for European Jews. He mentions one time when according to him American Jews were 100% against Zionism. He describes this within the context of American Jews being used to the American Democratic System and Judaism being a religion not an 'extreme' (his word), Nationalism. That is the difference between Jews who believe that being a Jew is about belonging to a religion rather than a Nation. He contrasts this with the experience of Eastern Jews living in lands where each ethnicity is treated as an ethnicity rather than as part of the community as in the US and that this gave Eastern Jews, with no experience of democracy the belief that everything should be done on Nationalism. Of course militant nationalism, which is what Zionism was/is was not looked on favourably in 1930's US so Zionists projected themselves in a different and dishonest way as being out for European Jews though they were anything but. (This does not mean that most Jews in Palestine knew of this. Indeed they got very little information about what was happening to European Jews)

The Zionist Lobby was what changed things - though Lilienthal does address the issue of the 'Jewish Lobby' and does not belief such was the case. He gives examples of Jews voting against the Zionist Lobby in large numbers. Coupled with that, those who did not agree with the Zionists were really trashed whether they be Jews or not. It was a surprise to read his book, most of it written in 1953 and find much the same language and tactics being used towards those critical of the Zionist plans as there are now of people critical of Israel - calling of anti-Semitism, character defamation, getting sacked from their jobs and so on but most of all it was their exploitation of the holocaust coupled with people's feelings towards those who had suffered said holocaust that was their greatest help. People for instance were blackmailed/bribed to vote yes for partition but according to L even for those who did vote freely, felt heavy in heart and excused it by believing they were trying to offer the best solution for the holocaust survivors. The US stance to the partition is probably one we could look at. It was widely criticised and opposed by the State Department and still went ahead - apparent bribing of Truman.

Now let's go back to what we were talking about. The US/UK and other countries willingness to take in Displaced Person's particularly Jews in mass numbers being thwarted by Zionists and look at what some Jews of the time said.

Yiddish Bulletin, Free Jewish Club, May 19th 1950

quoted in What price Israel

and the Jewish Forward, largest Yiddish paper in the world at the time on Dec 11th 1943

L goes on to quote Dr Louis Finkelstein of the Jewish Theological Seminary in Manhattan - he was apparently one of the most respected theologians of the time as saying in an interview in 1951

"if United States Jews had put as much effort into getting D.P's admitted to this country as they put into Zionism, a home could have been found in the New World for all the D.P Jews in Europe"

What Price Israel p 29.

Now we need to remember that the whole argument for a Jewish State which took away another people's rights for self determination (and their ancestral home as it turned out) would not have existed if the offers which were there had been taken up. This without question would have been the best solution - I have said that before when I thought it was Western States which stopped this. There would not have been the vote in the UN when she went against her Charter and which Israel has used again and again to justify her existence - that and God.

Now interesting though this is I have a ton of things to do and must leave this here just now.

I will try to get to the other things another time but if you keep adding more I will only be able to take one part at a time and that after all the things waiting have been done!!!!!!

 

Their specialty is defending Israel from all enemies.

 

You said London agreed to recieve 150,000 refugees and the USA about the same number, you said it was foiled by the Zionists then you say it was becasue the Zionists said the refugees want to reach Palestine (thou you say it wasnt true) because the Zionists didnt participate in negotioations on the future of the refugees (thou you said most of the refugees were no Zionists at all) and they had a good lobby..., so that's why they approved taking refugees at first but then refused - 'cause the Zionists told them so, doesnt sound serious to me, sounds like an excuse.

Well if they listened to the Zionists and took them as official rep of the refugees and perhaps the whole Jewish ppl - what's the problem ? the Zionists wanted the refugees in future Israel for the sake of the nation and neither powers denied them of that - according to you, so why are you blaming the Zionists and not those that agreed with them ? you say they were on the same side here.


The Jews in Palestine wanted a country that's true, you make it sound evil but its a basic right a nation has, that the Zionists acted upon that is very much known to me and every person that reads history that alone is not illegal or evil in any way. the Arab opposition to that was also very well known, Arab attacks since 1920's were also known - that's why the Jews armed themselves and had a military like org to protect themselves, yes there were also 2 terror gangs but they were small in compare of the main Hagana group.

Zionism is a cancer to you because of all the propaganda you've been eating, taking over the ME and perhaps the world, who knows where you took it by now, the facts are most Jews around the world are now Zionists = approve the state of Israel and the concept of a Jewish homeland, even if when Zionism started they were a minority. they got support along the way and possibly the need was made clear to those that opposed it at first. so I think its a bit dumb to say how devious Zionism was and how it fooled Jews or whatever, we are in 2015 and neither Israel nor Zionism are going anywhere.

 

Certainly NOT by killing twice as many Palestinians than those who killed Israelis. . .and how do you explain children being killed by Israelis? Did they also had a knife and raised their hand?

 

Indeed.

 

Not according to this:

 

I've looked through your source, and this is what I've read: Mondoweiss is an independent website devoted to informing readers about developments in Israel/Palestine and related US foreign policy. - See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/about-mondoweiss#sthash.unHt3kN4.dpuf

Then I've scanned headings, and decided I've no time to spend reading yet another Pro Palestinian independent garbage collection. Sorry.

 

Yes. . .I'm sure you spend enough time already "reading yet another [pro-Israeli propaganda] garbage collection" I can understand how reading an Independent source might create an very uncomfortable dissonance!

 

From your source, an example of journalistical ndependence, truthfully reported from the ground, a real gem among many:


The young boy told Ma‘an that Israeli soldiers began firing tear gas into a children’s playground in the refugee camp, forcing him and his friends to flee the area. Israeli soldiers who had entered the camp then detained him as he was running away, and interrogated him for several hours before the Palestinian liaison office intervened to have him released. - See more at: http://mondoweiss.net/2015/11/interrogate-palestinian-bethlehem#sthash.5AGDoEJ9.dpuf

Not a word on why Israelis "fired" into playground, why they have "detained" 6 year old... If an idiot Palestinian sympathizer "reports" that Israelis arrested 6 year old for no reason, am I supposed to clinch my fists, drop my jaw and start shouting "them hideous Israelis"?

GIMMI A (*)(*)(*)(*)NG BREAK

 

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/in...eli-palestinian-violence-151013142015577.html

Not to add fuel to the fire, but the number of Palestinian deaths as well as the perpetual annexation of land by the illegal Israeli occupation continues to go unnoticed in the mainstream media. All the while, Palestine is being reduced to the size of a basketball court. Only then, will the scum of the Israeli government be satiated.

 

So if your next door neighbour suddenly extended the boundary of their garden into yours, you'd be cool with that would you?

 

One would wonder what would happen in the us if the police took a 6 year old into custody and interrogated him for hours. And, isn't it pretty standard anymore in the US for White cops to arrest young Black men, simply because they are running away?

At the least, this kind of reports should make you wonder why Israeli soldiers would fire tear gas in an elementary school playground!

 

There will always be a "reason" for the Israelis to commit some of the worst atrocities on the Palestinian. When children were killed in Gaza 2 summers ago, a lot of Zionist robots placed the blame squarely on the shoulders of the parents because they "voted for Hamas". Kid you not.

 

Why was six year old supposedly taken into custody by the Army and interrogated, and who can verify it except some blogger? Hm?

 

Which children are you talking about? These gathered around rocket launch sites about to be retaliated upon, or these made by Hamas to stand with their parents atop rooftops of buildings, about to be bombed?

I know, i know - you must be talking about kids blown up by Hamas own rockets that went astray

 

Ah, a reader of Al Jaseera have we here, so well informed must thou be... Did you know, there are over two hundred territorial conflicts that are going on in the world, and the only one we hear about with any regularity is the one where Israel pillage and still land from poor Palestinians?

Wonder why?

 

LOL...Are you suggesting it's the Palestinian's as opposed to the Israeli's who are stealing land?

 

Ah yes, because it isn't full of fawning adulation for the pariah state of Israel it isn't worth your trouble? Not a terribly honest approach, is it?

- - - Updated - - -

You mean just like Israel is doing with its illegal occupation and illegal settlement (town) building? Would you?

 

Because it's the longest oppressive conflict done by a western style democracy by far, who can only accomplish that because they openly lobby western countries. It's them Israeli Jews and their henchmen who sucks in the western world with their ethnic cleansing ways. Nobody would have give a damn in the west if Israel did this only with the help of the Central African Republic.

 

I'll ignore the masked insult and grave spelling errors for the sake of the civility of this conversation, but to answer your question, it's because it's the only illegal occupation and apartheid state in the world that receives sanction from Western governments as a whole to continue what it's doing. To call it a "territorial conflict" is understating Israel's dominant role in actively stealing land from the Palestinians.

 

Did you know that Abu Dis, Qalandiya, Shuafat (etc.) are built on private lands that Jews owned and which Jordan needed to protect their status as such when they control Judea and Samaria, according to international law? But it didnt stop Jordan to built Qalandiya and Shuafat (only two examples) on private lands.

Once again these maps, huh?

The most left map, shows the map from 1947, when the land of Israel was under the British Mandate.
The map that is right beside the most left one is the map if Resolution 181 would've been fulfilled.
The map that shows the reality in 1949-1967, it actually shows the map of the armistic line from 1949. The green area near Jordan was the area that Jordan took over, and the green area where is Gaza, was under Egypt control.
The map of 2005, shows what Oslo created in the West Bank, and in Gaza it shows the reality after the disengagement..

I dont see how those maps have any to do with the disscusion? Or maybe the UK, Jordan, Egypt, Beilin, Peres and Rabin are all to blame?

 

Of course not. You made that up.

Go on list the other oppressive conflicts you compared it to. Lol.

Can't wait.

You even know of any?

 

That would be funny if it wasn't so sad!

The Left bank and Gaza are so small, and so over-populated, that EVERYTHING, including schools and hospitals, are near target areas for violence!

And, if Israel has its way. . .it will get even smaller!

 

Gaza is small to the point of schools and hospitals being near target areas for violence... I've tried to comprehend what target areas for violence are, and hurt myself.

Leaving that aside, did you know Gaza Strip is mostly rural and there are mostly barely settled areas between few cities and towns? Fields, fields and more fields. How does it fits into your neatly constructed legend of Gazans standing shoulder to shoulder form one end of Gaza to another and no matter what Israel hits, it'll kill hundreds of Palestinians, mostly infant children?

 

Are you calling my spelling of Al Jazeera a "grave" spelling mistake? My English must have improved, if that was the only spelling mistake you could find. Unless you consider my mostly intentional grammatical mistakes a "spelling" mistakes too"