Mistakes we have made in the struggle against islamic jihad

Discussion in 'Political Opinions & Beliefs' started by ElDiablo, Nov 25, 2015.

  1. Independant thinker

    Independant thinker Banned

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    Havent you got some washing to put out, Mrs Israeli housewife?
     
  2. LiveUninhibited

    LiveUninhibited Well-Known Member

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    I'd simplify it to:

    1. Meddling in the middle east.
    2. Not focusing on internal security.
    3. Trying to change the middle east when it attacks us, instead of destroying whatever enemies are willing to fight, and then leaving.

    I think it's all a result of over-learning our anti-isolationism lessons from WWII.

    It's fine to retaliate to show we're not paper tigers, but we don't need to sit on them and wait for them to punch us over and over again. If an IUD goes off on the last day of a brief occupation, leave and vaporize where it happened or where you think it came from on the way out and then focus on security at home to try to break the cycle of violence. The most merciful wars are brutal and quick. Security at home would certainly include not allowing them to move here. It's fine to say that oh only 1 in 1000 of them are terrorists, but it only takes one.
     
  3. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Insults tell me that you cannot defend your argument. If all you have left are insults then I will move on to debate the objective.
     
  4. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Oh I dunno. They don't wear uniforms, and it's been proven that Afgan and Iraqi troops constantly went back and forth from government to Al Queda, they've pledged to infiltrate via legal means and to blend in before attacking....aaaaand

    Paris. They certainly didn't see it coming.

    Everything they do is designed to hide and blend in before striking. That's what terrorists do bro.

    So if the entire population of the US was abducted by UFO's tomorrow, would the headlines say "Small Percentage of World Population Missing".
     
  5. ElDiablo

    ElDiablo Banned

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    bwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa another Jew Hater pops up. Got it. I said nothing about Israel .....whatsoever....yet the Jew Haters always, always want to make a scape goat out of the Jews.
     
  6. ElDiablo

    ElDiablo Banned

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    Just tell us why you think 350 million jihadi supporters is a insignificant number?
     
  7. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I wish I'd win an insignificant amount like that in dollars.
     
  8. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    And the above proves what exactly? I argue that the terrorists do not represent all Islam nor do all Muslims support terrorism. The above is picking out the exceptions and implying that it is the rule.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Please post where I allegedly claimed that 350 million is a insignificant number. Hint, I never made the above claim.
     
  9. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Please post where I allegedly claimed that 350 million is a insignificant number.
     
  10. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    By suggesting it's ok because 1.35 billion have less bloodthirsty desires.

    Personally I think the number of the truly peaceful is much, much smaller. But hey, polls are always accurate right.

    If eating 1 out of every 5 chickens resulted in death I'd call that significant. 1 out of 5 muslims OPENLY supporting terrorism is also pretty significant.
     
  11. Sunspear

    Sunspear New Member

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    The same reason you can mention Islam and terrorism in the same sentence. Because Islam is a monotheistic religion that preaches belief in the One True God of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad... and I am a Muslim who believes in God.

    Speaking of which, why do you call yourself El Diablo? Do you take pleasure in referring to yourself as The Devil?

    It's a history of how we as humans began to perceive God from the point of view of an atheist.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Even if you did mention that as a response, the number is actually false. The Pew Poll link he posted was a second/third party. More than 90% of Muslims worldwide support religious freedom and are opposed to the barbaric practices of these radicals.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Proof of this blatantly false statistic?
     
  12. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Please post where I allegedly said that "it's ok because 1.35 billion have less bloodthirsty desires." Hint, I never made the above claim.

    The actual number could be higher or lower. But why assume either way?

    Indeed, nor have I claimed otherwise.
     
  13. ElDiablo

    ElDiablo Banned

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    Originally Posted by robini123 View Post

    "Moot point as 350 million is a small fraction of 1.7 billion."
     
  14. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    The 350 million is the unsourced claim of the OP. As for the above stated 90%, I did a search of the page and did not find the source for the 90% claim. I did however find it interesting that 80%+ viewed suicide as immoral which correlates with another graph that showed that the vast majority are against suicide bombings.
     
  15. ElDiablo

    ElDiablo Banned

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    Shedding Blood For Allah: Pew Study Says More Than 350 Million Muslims Support Violent Jihad 4
    3 May 2013 | Islam
    Tuesday saw the release of a major international Pew Research study into the opinions of Muslims on a variety of topics. The full report (PDF) is here, but let’s just take a quick peek:

    The study is a four-year effort by Pew, which conducted 38,000 face-to-face interviews in 80-plus languages for the survey. In total, 39 countries and territories were included, all of which had over 10 million Muslims living there. …

    A majority of Muslims in Asia, Africa and the Middle East favored sharia law being adopted as the law of their countries, with the highest support recorded in Afghanistan at 99 percent. …

    The study says that 72 percent of Indonesian Muslims favor making Islamic law the official legal code in the country, compared to 86 percent in Malaysia and 77 percent in Thailand having the same opinion.
    islam-will-dominate-the-world

    A strong majority surveyed said so-called honor killings could never be justified. The only exceptions came in Afghanistan and Iraq, where majorities condoned executions of women deemed to have shamed their families by engaging in premarital sex or adultery.

    Finally, to Pew’s credit, it didn’t ignore the elephant in the room:

    The survey found the global median for Muslims opposed to violence in the name of Islam was 72 percent.
    Marvellous.

    Even though that group includes individuals like the 2009-era Tsarnaev brothers — then still moderate and not yet radicalized — let’s take it at face value and rejoice that a solid majority of Muslims does not openly engage in (or openly support) murder for Allah. 72 percent! Terrific!

    www.pewforum.org_uploadedFiles_Topi...ims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf
    Except … well, what about the other 28 percent? There are 1.3 billion Muslims on this planet. If 28 percent of them support violent jihad, that’s 364 million Muslims who condone the murder of apostates, blasphemers, gay people, cartoonists, loose women, and possibly everyone godless enough to attend the Boston marathon.

    In the United States, the picture is only marginally better. Eight out of ten U.S. Muslims say it’s not cool to strap a bomb to your chest and kill a bunch of kuffar. But two out of ten say that’s dandy. There are 2.6 million Muslims living in the U.S. … x 19 percent … Yep, almost half a million of them give suicide bombers a big thumbs-up.

    Relieved? Reassured? Me neither.

    Now let’s take a closer look at the report itself (pages 68-71), rather than the summary:

    The survey finds widespread concern about religious extremism in Southeast Asia, South Asia and the Middle EastNorth Africa region. In nearly every country surveyed in these regions, at least half of Muslims say they are very concerned or somewhat concerned about extremist groups.

    So roughly half a billion Muslims have no such concerns. Got it.

    In Indonesia, nearly eight-in-ten Muslims say they are worried about religious extremism (78%), including more than half (53%) who are worried about Islamic extremists.

    That’s adorable. That means that 25 percent of Indonesian Muslims are worried about non-Muslim extremists (of which there are very few in that country) to the exclusion of the violent agitators, murderers, and terrorists in their own midst. And in their way, they’d be right. They themselves will likely not be the targets of fellow Muslims. That fate will have to be borne by Indonesian Christians, Buddhists, or agnostics — or by tourists brave enough to visit a Bali nightclub.

    My main takeaway from the Pew study is that the Muslim world seems to be radicalizing at breakneck speed.

    Consider: After Gallup opinion-polled tens of thousands of Muslims across 35 nations in the mid-aughts and released its report in 2007, we were told that Muslims were almost totally non-violent. They only desire that the West show a little “respect” for their religion.

    At the time, Dalia Mogahed, the executive director of the Gallup Center for Muslim Studies, could hardly stop talking about how widespread the Muslim aversion to Islamic violence was. She said she found that 93 percent of her fellow believers don’t want to see a drop of blood spilled in the name of Mohammed. What she left out was that the seven percent who do amounted to 91 million Muslims.

    No doubt there is a difference between Gallup’s questions and methodology on the one hand, and Pew’s on the other. But if their respective numbers are even in the ballpark, and in seven or eight years’ time we’ve gone from roughly 90 million devout self-confessed supporters of Islamic violence to more than 350 million, we may well wonder if the message that Islam is “the religion of peace” is getting through to the followers — much less anyone else.

    =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

    A huge thanks to Pew for gathering and publishing the data. There is much to be learned from the report, and I’ve already spent a couple of hours poring over the fascinating data. Over the next week or two, in dribs and drabs, I’ll share more of the results.
     
  16. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for making my case as I clearly never said the number was insignificant. Here is what I actually said "Moot point as 350 million is a small fraction of 1.7 billion." Do the math yourself and break it down to a fraction and you will see that it is a small fraction of the whole... or break it down to a percentage and you will see the the percentage is around 20% which means that around 80% are against terrorism.

    Where is it written that a small fraction = an insignificant number? How you interpret what I say is far removed from what I actually said.

    So let me rephrase my question in perhaps a more pleasing way for you. Do the views of many (350 million) represent the views of many more (1.35 billion)?
     
  17. Wehrwolfen

    Wehrwolfen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree with you, but you made a slight mistake in describing an Improvised Explosive device (IED) as an (IUD) intrauterine device. It made me chuckle. But I know what you meant. The women on these boards should take heed.
     
  18. ElDiablo

    ElDiablo Banned

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    You seem to have a comprehension problem. Read the pew poll again and try and understand what is being said.
     
  19. Wehrwolfen

    Wehrwolfen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Hmm...., what's the population of the United States?
     
  20. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    I see no evidence that Pew made a claim of 350 million as the number appears to be the extrapolation of the author of the blog. The link you posted does not work, but I found the source which is a blog.
    http://moralcompassblog.com/2013/05/03/pew/

    The blog makes claims that is not supported by the cited source. The blogger takes statistics then applies their own interpretation that the Pew data does not support.

    The actual Pew report is over 200 pages. Have you read the 200+ page report? If so can you point out where Pew makes the claim of 350 million?
    http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/worlds-muslims-religion-politics-society-full-report.pdf

    From what I can tell the blogger took the stats on page 70, crunched the numbers to arrive at a median and then implied that the findings justified the following statement;

    The problem is that the above is not supported by the Pew study. Did you bother to vet the source before you posted it?
     
  21. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Nor was the quote in reference to the Pew poll. Again you insult which shows me that you cannot defend your position.
     
  22. vman12

    vman12 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    See that's a bit misleading.

    They have two types of suicide in Islam, well, more like two entirely different concepts.

    There's the regular ole suicide which is almost unheard of that the world is familiar with, then there's the kind where you blow yourself up in a martyr attack. The first one might be viewed as immoral by 80% of them, but the martyr kind sure isn't.
     
  23. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Source citation needed for the above claim.
     
  24. ElDiablo

    ElDiablo Banned

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    Well I suppose the term 'small fraction' she has decided to use in conjunction with 350 million supporters of jihad could be argued back and forth on whether or not it is a 'small fraction' or not....but when all is said and done 350 million supporters of jihad is a huge number.
     
  25. Wehrwolfen

    Wehrwolfen Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Especially when you consider that America's total population is 322 million men, women and children.
     

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