Respecting all views

Discussion in 'Latest US & World News' started by Sane Centrist, Nov 28, 2015.

  1. Sane Centrist

    Sane Centrist Well-Known Member

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    So I don't live under a rock or in a vacuum and I'm fully aware that our ethnicity, culture, preferred religion (if any) life experiences, area of upbringing, decade of upbringing, mentality of parents, social environments, sexuality and many other things all play a major role in our development. All of that also forms our world-view, outlook on life, the world around us and how we view & think about things.

    I've read dozens & dozens of threads in here on many topics and totally get that all of us fall pretty much 6 degrees of separation from each other.

    The major topics that seem to dominate this forum are: politics (absolutely), and then all of the kitchen table social issues and major daily news events like: shootings, bombings, war, abortion, civil rights, LBGT rights, social programs, local city, state, government programs, and the occasional rants on everything from dogs eating homework to our car not starting on Monday morning.

    What's troubling (and I've fallen victim to this myself from time to time) are the emotional replies or insultive back & forth's that doesn't get anybody anywhere, and the entire dialog shuts down. We're all pretty much posting anonymously and honestly there's no need to be insultive or take things personally, and as I've stated this is a department where I need to and have worked on a lot myself as I've made quite a few smart-ass comments when they weren't needed.

    So what's the point of this post??

    To attempt a reset, an attempt at reaching as many of you as I can to remind all of us that there's no need to go dark or negative, a reminder to debate issues like civilized people and not crazed people trying to insult or slam each other.

    Our country seems to be getting angrier & angrier by the day: there was a guy that shot a waiter for telling him he couldn't smoke in a restaurant, the guy that just killed a bunch of people at a Planned Parenthood, the latest hysteria over refugees that haven't even gotten here yet, and everybody's acting as if they're all carrying the black plague, a small movement that some people started after being fed up with seeing members of their community getting gunned down to spread the message that their lives matter has turned into them being called a terrorist organization. (funny, the Guardian Angels were never called terrorist's)

    Seriously it's all getting way out of hand.

    Every single one of us comes from different walks of life and if we all accumulated the years of our life experience it would add up to millions of years of life experience. So how about we stop shouting at each other and make an effort to listen.......? We might just learn something in the process.

    How about we all dial it down a bit, not get so worked up, realize the sky isn't falling & the world isn't ending over every piece of legislation that comes from Washington, stop & think before we write or hit "post" and just in general "try" to see where the other person is coming from before we reply. (all of this goes for myself as well)
     
  2. Alucard

    Alucard New Member Past Donor

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    Tolerance is the key.
     
  3. mister magoo

    mister magoo New Member

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    Methinks the world is too far gone my friend....
     
  4. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    The difference between left and right have become so huge that a civil discussion is almost impossible.

    I have no trust or faith in the right to be honest or open minded and I'm sure they feel the same about me.

    Sad.
     
  5. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Moderators? Quickly! Hire this person!!!
     
    Doug_yvr likes this.
  6. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    You're correct. So long as you're propping Hillary, I have no trust or faith in you (the Left)
     
  7. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    Well I am and I will.

    And your tagline says all that needs to be said about your open mindedness.
     
  8. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Why, you disagree with my tagline? Would you still disagree with it if the author was different?

    That's right. What does it say about your open-mindedness?
     
  9. Pax Aeon

    Pax Aeon Well-Known Member

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    These convenient tags are getting rather cliché. The words Republican-conservative-right all mean the same thing, at least that's the way they present themselves. However, the same can no longer be said about Democrat-liberal/progressive-left. There are a number of "left leaning" people who see Obama and Hillary as war mongering Democrats and have like the right, aligned themselves with the corporations. Neocons, they are called...no longer liberal/progressive.

    I gave up on the Republicrat duopoly years ago as they are now merely two sides of the same coin. Party loyalist/zealots on both sides have become worse...."party before country." While I have no beliefs in common with the extremist dogma of the right, the Democrats "used to" (past tense) champion the liberal concepts such as war as a last option, keeping money out of politics, standing up for privacy rights (especially when using telecommunications) and clean government....but no more.

    I exist someplace in the middle now and after watching voting citizens from both sides refuse to at least look for common ground, how the hell can I respect either? I can't. While I can find some common grounds on the left, that has already been strained. Making matters worse, both sides have become so dumbed down, they can't see the Democratic/Republican silent agreements on issues such as war, the so-called Patriot act (which violates our rights) and soon to be, corporation dominated TPP agreements.

    Respect has to be earned, it is not freely given, unless one is a dolt. Politics has nothing left to respect.

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  10. Sane Centrist

    Sane Centrist Well-Known Member

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    I've been thinking that way for some time now and it's really sad. I realize change is evident & un-stoppable, and I also realize that every generation thinks that their was the best and that the current one their living in is horrible.

    But these "Millennial's"..................Oh My God, Oh My God, Oh My God........

    And the funny thing is, that's all I can muster.
     
  11. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    I've heard the garbage that jackass spews.

    Unfortunately so have you.
     
  12. Fallen

    Fallen Well-Known Member

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    Tolerance doesn't work sometimes. As proven by EU. Muslims come there imposing their own laws. And all the politicians let them because of "Tolerance". First and foremost, they law of the land has to be followed. If you want to live in that land, you have to alter your beliefs


    I swear, If politics in America start accommodatin muslims and Sharia law through their courts, that will be the day I move to Russia.
     
  13. tecoyah

    tecoyah Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I find four simple words to be quite effective.

    Have A Nice Day.

    Once we note a discussion being poisoned by the personality and attitude of the other...you just end it before it gets worse.
     
  14. Fallen

    Fallen Well-Known Member

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    No attitude here. I think Sharia Law violates everything we stand for and put democracy in jeopardy.

    Am I wrong for saying this? Or am I wrong about Sharia courts in Europe?

    In Sharia courts woman's opinion is worth half that of a man. So if a lone woman gets raped, she will be charged because she didn't have a second woman there to testify against the man.

    That is wrong.

    ------

    At least 85 Islamic sharia courts are operating in Britain, a study claimed yesterday.

    The astonishing figure is 17 times higher than previously accepted.

    The tribunals, working mainly from mosques, settle financial and family disputes according to religious principles. They lay down judgments which can be given full legal status if approved in national law courts.

    However, they operate behind doors that are closed to independent observers and their decisions are likely to be unfair to women and backed by intimidation, a report by independent think-tank Civitas said.

    Commentators on the influence of sharia law often count only the five courts in London, Manchester, Bradford, Birmingham and Nuneaton that are run by the Muslim Arbitration Tribunal, a body whose rulings are enforced through the state courts under the 1996 Arbitration Act.

    But the study by academic and Islamic specialist Denis MacEoin estimates there are at least 85 working tribunals.

    The spread of sharia law has become increasingly controversial since its role was backed last year by Archbishop of Canterbury Dr Rowan Williams and Lord Phillips, the Lord Chief Justice who stepped down last October.

    Dr Williams said a recognised role for sharia law seemed 'unavoidable' and Lord Phillips said there was no reason why decisions made on sharia principles should not be recognised by the national courts.

    But the Civitas report said the principles on which sharia courts work are indicated by the fatwas - religious decrees - set out on websites run by British mosques.

    Mr MacEoin said: 'Among the rulings we find some that advise illegal actions and others that transgress human rights standards as applied by British courts.'

    Examples set out in his study include a ruling that no Muslim woman may marry a non-Muslim man unless he converts to Islam and that any children of a woman who does should be taken from her until she marries a Muslim.

    Further rulings, according to the report, approve polygamous marriage and enforce a woman's duty to have sex with her husband on his demand.

    The report added: 'The fact that so many sharia rulings in Britain relate to cases concerning divorce and custody of children is of particular concern, as women are not equal in sharia law, and sharia contains no specific commitment to the best interests of the child that is fundamental to family law in the UK.

    'Under sharia, a male child belongs to the father after the age of seven, regardless of circumstances.'

    It said: 'Sharia courts operating in Britain may be handing down rulings that are inappropriate to this country because they are linked to elements in Islamic law that are seriously out of step with trends in Western legislation.'

    The study pointed out that the House of Lords ruled in a child custody case last year that the sharia rules on the matter were 'arbitrary and discriminatory'.

    And a 2003 judgment of the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg said it was 'difficult to declare one's respect for democracy and human rights while at the same time supporting a regime based on sharia, which clearly diverges from Convention values.'

    However last year Justice Minister Bridget Prentice told MPs that 'if, in a family dispute ...the parties to a judgment in a sharia council wish to have this recognised by English authorities, they are at liberty to draft a consent order embodying the terms of the agreement and submit it to an English court.

    'This allows judges to scrutinise it to ensure it complies with English legal tenets.'

    Decisions from sharia tribunals can be presented to a family court judge for approval with no more detail than is necessary to complete a two page

    form. The sharia courts in the Muslim Arbitration Tribunal are recognised as courts under the Arbitration Act. This law, which covers Jewish Beth Din courts, gives legal powers to a tribunal if all parties involved accept its authority.

    [​IMG]

    The Civitas study said the Islamic courts should no longer be recognised under British law.

    Its director Dr David Green said: 'The reality is that for many Muslims, sharia courts are in practice part of an institutionalised atmosphere of intimidation, backed by the ultimate sanction of a death threat.'

    The Muslim Council in Britain condemned the study for ' stirring up hatred'.

    A spokesman said: 'Sharia councils are perfectly legitimate. There is no evidence they are intimidating or discriminatory against women. The system is purely voluntary so if people don't like it they can go elsewhere.'

    Patrick Mercer, Tory MP for Newark and chairman of the Commons counter-terrorism sub committee, said: 'We have an established law of the land and a judiciary. Anything that operates otside that system must be viewed with great caution. 'If crimes are going unreported to police, this will erode the authority of those who have to enforce our law. In a sovereign state there must be one law, and one law only.' Philip Davies, Tory MP for Shipley, said: 'Everyone should be deeply concerned about the extent of these courts. 'They do entrench division in society, and do nothing to entrench integration or community cohesion. It leads to a segregated society. 'There should be one law, and that should be British law. We can't have a situation where people can choose which system of law they follow and which they do not. 'We can't have a situation where people choose the system of law which they feel gives them the best outcome. Everyone should equal under one law.' Veteran Tory Lord Tebbit provoked anger among Muslims earlier this month by comparing Islamic sharia courts to gangsters. He likened the tribunals to the 'system of arbitration of disputes that was run by the Kray brothers'. Lord Tebbit told the Lords: 'Are you not aware that there is extreme pressure put upon vulnerable women to go through a form of arbitration that results in them being virtually precluded from access to British law?' Warning that women could be shut out from the protection of the law, he asked Justice Minister Lord Bach: 'That is a difficult matter, I know, but how do you think we can help those who are put in that position?'

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...hing-spread-Islamic-justice-closed-doors.html


    So, in the name of "tolerance" is such a thing ok?
     
  15. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Would you believe me if I tell you, I usually form my own opinion and not easily indoctrinated? We both have listened to Rush Limbaugh and while it appears you have withstood his charms, you're of the opinion, I did not and therefore a weak person. Is that how it works in your head?
     
  16. Texas Republican

    Texas Republican Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I agree about the gap between the left and right. The left wants to "fundamentally transform" the U.S. and the right will fight that tooth and nail.
     
  17. Lesh

    Lesh Banned

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    Muslims come there imposing their own laws.


    No they don't. If they are in our country they are subject to our laws.

    Have a nice day

    - - - Updated - - -

    I've listened to Rush to hear what the noise is about. And the venom and racism he spews turned my stomach.

    Can you say the same?
     
  18. Merwen

    Merwen Well-Known Member

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    This should be in the Opinions threads. In this section, they require you to have a link to an article.

    I would copy this just in case the mods take it down, so you can put it in the Opinion section.
     
  19. Sane Centrist

    Sane Centrist Well-Known Member

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    Will do..........
     
  20. Dutch

    Dutch Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I am not Liberal. Did I answer your question?
     
  21. Steady Pie

    Steady Pie Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    When exactly was this mythical time in the past when the Democrats "used to" champion war as a last option, keep money out of politics and stand up for privacy rights and clean government? They've been virulent war hawks since at least Wilson and WWI. They've always had a sketchy relationship with privacy rights, and as far as I can tell have never been interested in clean government. Was this before or after they stacked the Supreme Court?

    [hr][/hr]

    Don't get me wrong, I agree with your post. I just don't see this "golden age" of good politics. Going all the way back to the First Party system, there have been two totalitarian parties (or one under Monroe) which have competed to destroy the liberties of the people. These same issues were present in a slightly different form going all the way back then.

    Nothing ever changes.
     
  22. Draco

    Draco Well-Known Member

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    Yup, it sucks watching you guys berate each other over and over.

    A lot of the time I see things where you could possibly meet in the middle, but alas, the anger breaks through and your quote becomes reality.
     
  23. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    republicans have 5 vs 4 for dems in the supreme court
     
  24. robini123

    robini123 Well-Known Member

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    Yet we all have boundaries that if crossed cannot be tolerated. What is tolerable to one will be intolerable to another.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I think every generation says the same thing.
     
  25. btthegreat

    btthegreat Well-Known Member

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    Insofar as we are discussing our national politics and why it is more and more divisive in the last 40 years, I watched a fascinating little documentary. This will sound a bit simplistic and silly, but maybe its as simple as the 1968 national convention coverage and how the television network at that time (ABC)with the least on air convention coverage time, the poorest news reputation, the lowest budget skyrocketed to the top ratings with its convention coverage and actually increased viewership from four years ago and the lessons network news coverage took away. The title is called Best Enemies and it describes the calculated risk ABC took, in putting two radically opposing 'pundits' into a room to 'duke it out' night after night and called that dramatic and sensational result 'news commentary'. Their names: William F Buckley and Gore Vidal.

    The whole concept of news and issue analysis is now about finding your own choir to preach to, through the airwaves a la FOX or MSNBC or turning us all into fans of verbal bloodsport with 'crossfire'. News media outlets either published, or television or cyperland know how to get and keep our attention, and civility is not part of the answer. This has been going on for decades. We gave the wrong people a financial incentive, to learn how to manipulate us for profit and the result affects how every political figure for tow generations has learned to adapt and communicate to our changing attention span, and a bizarre sense of how we learn about issues and define how we resolve them. There is never going to be a 'national conversation' about any issue again, because we won't engage in one, and we won't listen to one. We are too self satisfied, getting validated by our favorite propagandists to learn to listen, but we sure have learned how to belittle and demean from them.
     

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