A small caliber round may not stop an attacker...as my uncle discovered. He was attacked by a dude on PCP--the guy took an ENTIRE MAGAZINE from his PPK...but it was a little .380. Every round hit, including shots through both lungs and one dead-center on the sternum. (The little .380 did not penetrate.) The dude didn't go down until the last shot hit him in the throat and severed his carotid artery. He bought a S&W Model 29 in .44 Magnum within a week. His current carry pistol is a Ruger Super Redhawk in .454 Casull. - - - Updated - - - Sounds like he needs something with more steam on it...a hot .44 Magnum being on the LOW end of that spectrum.
I'll bet that 380 he had sold for cheap the next day. A 380 is considered by many as the minimum carry round. I say the same, but with caveats. Shot placement comes into play, but in the real world you're likely not going to have time for bullseye shots. Ammo selection is critical, that little 380 isn't doing doing much before it gets to the target, much less when it makes it into the target. What time of year is it and what are people wearing. In the cold of winter when everyone is likely to be wearing 3 or more layers of clothes... I won't carry a 380.
He is a competitive pistol shooter and an instructor...other than the last round (aimed at the dude's mouth), every shot could have been covered with a salad plate. He considers a hot 9mm or .38 Special +P the absolute minimum, and anything less than a .45ACP or .357 Magnum marginal.
You probably can't tell much difference between a 9mm wound and a 45 ACP. Most trauma surgeons can't either. The one shot stuff for pistol bullets is a myth and is going out the window rapidly. The only instant incapacitation is a CNS shot and even then you never know. I remember in particular a female crackhead who took a 22 in the head that lodged in her frontal lobe. She was only complaining of a bad headache when we took the history. That's why the trend has gone towards the 9mm with training going towards multiple hits.
I'm of the opinion that if I need one more round and I don't have it, then I'm screwed. I would rather have the mag capacity of a 9mm full of HP self defense ammo, than have the smaller mag capacity of a .45
That might be what it "seems" like, but I guess you didn't read the story. The bad guy had 7 or so "fatal" wounds, and it wouldn't matter if they were made by a .45 ACP, a .44 Mag., or a .50 AE. Wouldn't matter either, if they were made by a 9mm. The problem with calibers like .44 Mag. is that they blast through before they do much damage. I had my little romance with a Super Redhawk and the 3 single action Ruger .44's that were available at that time. They're great on critters that have enough mass to give that bullet something to work on, but they don't make much of a difference on smaller beasts, like humans. As Chuck says, you're far better off to have more ammo than was needed, and only a CNS hit will stop an attacker on the spot.
Hollow points solve any overpenetration problem...and I don't care WHAT he is on: a .454 Casull to the sternum will drop ANYONE.
454 casull would definitely have an impact! Some folks just don't feel comfortable carrying only 5 or 6 rounds... Or have the hips to support a large frame steel revolver everyday lol
He wouldn't mind more rounds...but he'd rather have six hot .454 Casulls than fifteen or even twenty underpowered rounds. He seriously considered a .50DE, but just doesn't trust any semiautomatic pistol not designed by John Browning.
And that's up to him, no one can argue against the reliability of a quality revolver. I used to carry only revolvers, but now I'll carry just about anything that I have proved reliable myself. In the woods it's a large revolver though. I personally think a 357 mag is plenty for daily carry. The 357 mag loaded with a 125 gr JHP is deemed the most effective handgun round by the FBI, due to its percent of one shot stops. I'll add that the Georgia Arms 158 gr Deer Stopper ammo ( a +p Speer Gold Dot), is what I carry when handgun hunting. 61 yards, deer fell where it was hit, bullet did exit, so I wouldn't personally carry it daily for fear of over penetration.
Agree. The further I get from my military and law enforcement days and the less practice I participate in, the more I have gravitated back to revolvers. Training is the key and revolvers are about as close to safe function under stress as anything. Have always preferred Glock and other double action autos without safties for the same reason. Thank you.
I wonder what a thread about "I'm the owner of a firearm company, ask me anything" would be like....... lol
The auto safety within the grip of 1911s is an excellent design. Thumb safeties are a real problem for the novice in a stress situation. Even the necessity to (*)(*)(*)(*) the first round of a 1911 is problematical. Few people understand just how mentally crippling surprise and fear is. Its like tapping someone on the shoulder when they think they are in an empty room. The person totally freaks out, unable to grasp reality. In a stress situation, people can so freak out they'll drop their firearm. Even in the military, in the first battle situation video shows about half of troops so panic they aren't firing at all, totally crippled by fear. That is why battle experienced/hardened troops are so superior. Personal safety firearms need to be no more complex than pointing and pulling the trigger, meaning no safety to operate, not be single action for the first round, and I HIGHLY advise a Crimson Trace for aiming.
45s typically are very heavy, setting aside even the physical bulk. My baby 45 with only a 6 stack mag is very heavy being all metal. A 45acp is not a CCW firearm in my opinion. Just too heavy and bulky. Lightweight and no safety firearms such as a Ruger LCP.380 or Alloy Airweight 38sp revolver with Crimson Trace are good CCW choices as a person actually will carry it and they are minimally sufficient. Larger firearms are more effective, but people tend to leave them behind. Larger firearms are good for home defense and in the glove box.
^ This is what most people don't realize. This is why I think everyone should train. As my friend always said, and I figured out a long time ago, in an extreme stress situation, you NEVER rise to the occasion, but rather fall to your level of training. Everyone has their opinion on which gun to pick for whatever reason... I would throw out Hk as a personal favorite. However, there are other fundamental things that come into play. Natural point of aim is one of them. In a high stress situation, a lot of people are not going to be able to aim worth crap. If you have a gun that points at the ground when you hold it naturally, you've already got one huge disadvantage working against you. Pick a gun that has a good natural point of aim. NPA can be trained, but if you've already got it, it's one less thing to worry about. Now days a lot of firearm manufacturers are making their guns with interchangeable back straps, and some (Hk) with interchangeable side straps.
Boxers or briefs? What was your father's maiden name? Why is it ok to prick your finger, but not ok to finger your prick?
I've been quite happy carrying 1911s, XD45s and S&W M&P 45Cs concealed or open for quite a few decades, thank you.
There are lots of different opinions on this... I say to shoot the biggest caliber you can control, *control* being the key word. Few people can effectively control a 45. I'm not talking about target shooting, I'm talking about fast follow up shots, and shots in multiple locations. Then, you take that 45 and size it down... you have even less people who can do it. Just because of what I have been doing for years and years, I've probably taken 25 or so different classes between Colorado to Florida. My employers used to pay for me to take them so I didn't care. After getting out of my line of work that made it a necessity to train, I still took as many classes as I could. You can always learn more. Anywho... it was always fun to watch big guys take their 45's and try to complete drills in a timely manner. It can be done, but we're talking about as fast and effectively as can be. It's not like sitting on a range and taking a shot, adjusting, taking another shot, pause, adjust, shoot again... anyone can do that. A 45 just isn't the right tool for most people. As far as the weight... a fully loaded USP 45 weights as much as an empty 1911. Some people can also carry quite easily, a full size 45. A lot goes into it... holster placement, holster angle, and then there is just practicing drawing your firearm... Some people can't really hide a full size though because of their size, without a jacket or long shirt. There are lots of things to consider. A few of the courses I took recommended the full size heavy weight airsoft pistols to train with. They weigh the same, they kick moderately like a 22... but it lets you practice drawing your pistol and squeezing off your first shot. You can also do it in the comfort of your own home whenever you want. I have come to like this very much. They aren't good for repeat/follow up shots (the recoil just isn't the same, doesn't help with control), but that first pull, target acquisition, and first shot... ya, they're good for that.
Imo, this works. I use an air pistol with blowback and have noticed better accuracy. I'm getting practice I would not get shooting live rounds, so it has to be helpful.
"Better" is purely situational...which is why we train not only often, but also under varied conditions and using varied methods.
