Sanctions or Second Cold War

Discussion in 'Russia & Eastern Europe' started by Alik Bahshi, Aug 12, 2014.

  1. Alik Bahshi

    Alik Bahshi Member

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    Alik Bahshi
    Sanctions or Second Cold War

    Russian military aggression in Ukraine is comparable with the situation created by Germany in the Sudetenland of Czechoslovakia before World War II. While Britain and France can say Czechoslovakia surrendered the German fascists, that is known to not stop further aggressive plans of Hitler. Followed by a military provocation in Danzig and the invasion of Poland and then Britain and France, as a guarantor of the independence of the Polish state, declared war on Germany. Since the Second World War.

    Today, in an age of tolerance and humanity of America and the United Kingdom, is a guarantee of the integrity and security of Ukraine, as punishment for the military intervention in Ukraine and the annexation of the Crimea, Russia did not declare war, instead it imposed sanctions against Russian officials directly involved in the organization of aggression by denying them visas and freezing foreign currency accounts. Of course, the sanctions are very painful, but to say that they are adequate to capture the Russian Empire in Ukraine, then simply abandon these Ukraine warranty. Moreover, to be honest approach to this case, the affected officials in a "sovereign democracy" (Putin's find - a false sign usual for Russian despotism) only carry out the orders of his sovereign Putin. Dissatisfaction with a dozen officials, no matter what rank they were nothing compared to the spiritual triumph of the Russian people, whom the people had not, it would seem, with the Battle of Poltava. Such popular support, which acquired Putin seized the Crimea, had no one leader of the modern era, except that Khomeini in Iran. Fuhrer Putin proved to be the conduit through which the world saw after a long mental confusion great-spirit of the Russian people and the first to be fully aware of him on himself, had the good fortune to be brothers Ukrainians. Following the lucky ones, in line with the course of Putin's "Back to the empire", probably will Moldovans, Kazakhs, well, the list goes on (1).

    In contrast to the German people, who refused to Hitler and Nazi ideology, the Russian people from their Fuehrer not refuse, because Putin said, mean the Russian people, the Russian people say, mean Putin. It is this unity of the leader and the people is due to the phenomenon that Putin for no political party is not worth it to any party and does not need. His party is the entire Russian people. No political rival of the number of Russian democrats, especially that some of them you will not find a single Russian by nationality, is not comparable to the popularity of Putin.

    Putin regrets the disintegration of the Soviet Union as a great geopolitical disaster, were not empty words, for them, hiding the revival plans of the Evil Empire. And Putin lied when he said that he had no intention "to return tens of thousands of native Russian territories," referring also to the Crimea (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNiMvkni11s). Also, without batting an eye, he lied about the presence of the Russian army is not unmarked with the annexation of the Crimea (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQDR6GTmwfs).
    Putin is a product of the Soviet regime in the most reactionary of its incarnation - the KGB, the organization stood guard over the great lie of the democratic nature of the totalitarian state like the Soviet Union. "Evil Empire" equally be called and the Empire of Lies. And the lies that comes through in every word of the Russian president, causing indescribable delight of the Russian people, who, instead of having to give up its imperial pretensions and take the example of the Finns peaceful work and arrangement of their country, rather go for Putin in the past. Yes ... from the national mentality going anywhere. Of the Russian Finn will not do, will not allow genes (2). The prospect of a peaceful creative labor does not threaten Russian, where tempting waving nuclear club, frightening neighbors.

    As paranoid Hitler, the Fuehrer Putin (3) is not able to assess the reality. Undertaken by the West cautious sanctions against individuals escalate to national and inevitably lead to the Second Cold War, which Russia, as well as the first, successfully lose, has finally broken up, like every empire. Hope Putin to China initially illusory. China, with its hard-working people and numerous powerful with incredible speed developing economy absorb the Russian empire, making it a raw materials appendage, and the price of the raw materials themselves and the Chinese will be installed.
    Thus, in any case, with all of that wealth is found in the depths of the Russian Empire, the Russian people are waiting for impoverished existence and as a consequence of the loss of empire they so desired.

    1 and its constituent peoples Fuehrer or Ukraine and the list goes on http://my.mail.ru/community/blog_alikbahshi/37C304CA98360D02.html
    2 People's fate or every cricket his last http://www.proza.ru/2008/03/22/639
    3 Great Russian chauvinism, and Putin his Fuhrer http://forum.bakililar.az/index.php?app=blog&module=display&section=blog&blogid=213&showentry=1452

    P.S. In the Russian Internet space the phenomenon of disappearance of some articles, so are the links to different sites, each of which can be found the missing article.

    16/05/14.
     
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  2. Tankist

    Tankist New Member

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    Second Cold War? Actually the first one basically never ended and is still ongoing.
     
  3. Europe2050

    Europe2050 New Member

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    The events of recent weeks strongly suggest that history repeats itself. Fortunately, not of 1914 and not of 1938 but of 1947 - Keyword Truman and Containment

    We currently have a Russia that will round out its sphere of influence with officially independent, but de facto dependent neighboring states. What the COMECON was then, now is the Eurasian Union. The whole is supported by a strong military presence and a supposed moral superiority. Domestically, Western-style democracy is frowned upon, but trying everywhere to prove that one is superior to the "West".

    On the other hand we have a West that is not willing to risk the price of its own destruction a war for the small countries in Russia's sphere of influence as it was then. The West will weld together its partners more closely, strengthen its defensive capabilities and counter the Russian military potential with the economic superiority of Western democracies.

    And in between the Ukraine, which occupies the former part of Germany (But in contrast to the former German Reich with no guilt). The Crimea has already got the part of East Prussia assigned. Open seems still the question of where the new "intra-Ukrainian border" is run, since it will probably need a new "Potsdam". Poroshenko (or successor) will give the "Adenauer", anchoring the west, integration in the EU for the price of the deepening of the division of the country. A founding of a "DDR" from the Russian zone of occupation "New Russia" with an appropriate "Ulbricht" should be doable.

    All this may sound sarcastic and mean for the Ukrainian people (as well as the Belarusian, Moldovan and Georgian). But since the West will certainly not risk a war, but also not flinch, otherways Putin going as far as he gets to do only with weaker, Cold War 2.0 is probably what Europe expects. And Ukraine can hope for a reunion, when after decades of initially supposedly weaker West has suspended the East economically by far and the people in "New Russia" noted that they were fooled.

    Sad but true ...
     
  4. Alik Bahshi

    Alik Bahshi Member

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    EU Council formally extended the anti-Russian sanctions imposed in connection with the accession of the Crimea and the situation in the Donbass, until 31 January 2017.
     
  5. RUS

    RUS Member

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    Oh my God. How much hatred of Russia ... And all this is due to the fact that .....Crimea residents did not want to live under the authority of the Kiev rebels who had committed a coup in Kiev in 2014.....

    .
    [video=youtube;o-RD3IlgOQ4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-RD3IlgOQ4[/video]
     
  6. RUS

    RUS Member

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    You are deceiving the gullible Americans. .....When you compare the Crimea with the Sudetenland.
    Sudeten never belonged to Germany.
    Crimea belonged to Russia.
    Russia won Crimea from Turkey in 1774.


    Crimea and the Sudetenland - a fundamentally different things.

    .
     
  7. Alik Bahshi

    Alik Bahshi Member

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    At that time point to your ignorance of history. The Germans came to the Sudetenland in 1620, after the Battle of White Mountain. You write that the Russian took the Crimea in 1774 and therefore, in your opinion, the Russian have more rights in the Crimea, the Germans to the Sudetenland. Your logic is excellent!
     
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  8. VSilver

    VSilver New Member

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    Germany won Crimea in 1942. Crimea belonged to Germany. By your logic Germans can pretend for Crimea because of its past conquest.
    But it`s outlaw logic.

    You, Russians, living in outlaw, can`t admit there`re the Rules.

    You signed the Rules, signed the Budapest Memorandum, you took responsibilities to secure Ukrainian sovereignty. But you broke your words - you invaded, occupied, and oppressed others minorities.

    You behave like Germans nazi - you occupy and say that you have the rights for it, you invade and say you were provoked by the West to protect Germans/Russians.

    Nazi were agressors, and they lost the War.
    USSR lost Cold War.
    Modern Russia is weaker then USSR, will Russia pull through another Cold War?
     
  9. RUS

    RUS Member

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    The logic one at all.
    Logic or present or absent.

    Russia has not signed the treaty with Hitler about the Crimea.
    December 28, 1783 Russia and Turkey signed the "Act on world trade and the borders of both states".

    My logic is present.
     
  10. RUS

    RUS Member

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    "The Germans came to the Sudetenland in 1620, after the Battle of White Mountain."

    It's right. "Germans came...."...:smile:

    But the Sudetenland belonged Austria. Austria but not Germany.,,,,
    [​IMG]


    Your not the first attempt to deceive the gullible Americans is failed.[​IMG]
    And I repeat once more.
    Sudeten never belonged to Germany (before 1938.... )
    Crimea and the Sudetenland - a fundamentally different things.


    .
     
  11. VSilver

    VSilver New Member

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    Where is your logic if Russia signed the Budapest Memorandum:

    -Respect Ukrainian independence and sovereignty and the existing borders.
    -Refrain from the threat or use of force against Ukraine.
    -Refrain from using economic pressure on Ukraine in order to influence its politics.
    -Seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression


    Russia also singned the Treaty on Friendship, Cooperation, and Partnership between Ukraine and the Russian Federation:

    In accord with provisions of the UN Charter and the obligations of the Final Act on Security and Cooperation in Europe, the High Contracting Parties shall respect each other′s territorial integrity and reaffirm the inviolability of the borders existing between them.

    Russia violated every of this agreements.
    Even simple Russians as you, Rus, are backing this violation. Russia and Russians are deceitful as Nazi were.
    So you have to be faced with backfire: sanctions, another Cold War.

    Do you remember the end of past Cold War with USSR`s desintegration? Is Russian territory without perils of another desintegration (such as new war for Chechen Independence)?
     
  12. RUS

    RUS Member

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    You heard that Russia invaded Ukraine. In your head appeared …. appeared picture….Russian bombing Kiev. Approximately like this:

    [video=youtube;QS1jJHqBc18]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QS1jJHqBc18[/video]

    And I understand your indignation, but….
    …..but in fact, nothing like that happened.

    I Explain.

    1 ... In Kiev, there was a coup d'etat..
    The rebels did not want to live under the rule of Yanukovicha.
    The rebels toppled President Yanukovych.
    (with help USA )

    2… Crimea residents did not want to live under rebel authority.
    They could not overthrow the rebels in Kiev, so they went from them. Legally. After the referendum.:oldman:
    ( with help Russia)

    Russia has not violated the Budapest Memorandum.
     
  13. VSilver

    VSilver New Member

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    Referendum had no legal warranty, it was without any legal international monitoring, its result is untrusted. Referendum was organized after Russian invasion and occupation.

    Russia violated the Budapest Memorandum, so Russia is faced with counter actions.
     
  14. RUS

    RUS Member

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    wow....."it was without any legal international monitoring".

    Please answer the question. Why? Why "it was without any legal international monitoring"?
    Who's to blame? Who Do not let them ( the "legal international monitoring ") to come to the Crimea? Who did a obstacles?

    ( The correct answer is - no one. ,,,,:) ,,,,, )

    The " legal international monitoring " did not come, and then says:
    -"It was without any legal international monitoring" , "its result is untrusted."...:clapping:

    Someone had to drag them to the Crimea by force?

    /
     
  15. VSilver

    VSilver New Member

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    The main obstacle was the illegality of Russian actions: Russia invaded, assaulted state buildings, Ukrainian military bases. Russia had violated the Budapest Memorandum first and after that Russia organized false Referendum in which anyone could vote for scores of times. Russians are experts in election falsification.

    Europe have notorious experience with appeasement of aggressor. Europe tried to appease Nazi in trade for peace in Europe. But every aggressor treats appeasement as someone's weakness and aggression goes on.
    There will be no another Munich Agreements with Russia because Russia will proceed with aggression. So Russia will faced with opposite force, another kind of Cold War. We know real Russia is weak, Russia is more weaker than USSR.
     
  16. RUS

    RUS Member

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    1... The " legal international monitoring " did not come to Crimea ....specifically .....for to do now these fantasy.
    2...You "hesitate" to answer a simple question.:smile:
     
  17. RUS

    RUS Member

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    .......
     
  18. VSilver

    VSilver New Member

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    You`ve admitted the Referendum was without legal international monitoring, so international community doesn`t trust its result. The cause of the reluctance to monitor the Referendum was simple: Russia had invaded Ukraine before the Voting, so Referendum during Russian occupation had no legal warranty.

    The strong fact is: Russia invaded Ukraine before the Referendum. It`s the military aggression and occupation.

    Ukraine calls Russian troops ‘invasion’, 1.03.14

    [video=youtube;tSJiNRuPmgc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSJiNRuPmgc[/video]
     
  19. Alik Bahshi

    Alik Bahshi Member

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    Exactly the same Russian referendums conducted in Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania. That is injected army, then carried refereddum.
     
  20. RUS

    RUS Member

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    You are reminding the Soviet era. When Russia was building communism in the world.
    Now probably the first time I can not deny your words..,,,, :applause:
     
  21. RUS

    RUS Member

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    You speak as if the "legal warranty" were here.
    /
    [video=youtube;Nsuzh69Jgnk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nsuzh69Jgnk[/video]

    1....You are saying as our Tatars say in the old saying:
    " For us anyway. That - a vodka, that - a machine gun.
    For us the main thing - it is knocking down to the ground.":smile:

    Yes. Here it is the Russian military. But these are not military force in Libya, Iraq and Belgrade.
    Our military - is not " a machine gun."
     
  22. RUS

    RUS Member

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    1 ... Crimean residents are not aware that Russia committed aggression against them. They did not make statements about the Russian aggression. It is a fact.
    This fact gave CNN (for world history).
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydGE8TN0MQA

    3333333333333333333333333

    Good.
    Assume that this is indeed Russia committed aggression against Ukraine.

    ( I said - let is assume)
    [​IMG]



    Show me the people ....who suffered from this aggression.[​IMG]

    .
    [video=youtube;5DNVL50lEXg]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DNVL50lEXg[/video]
     
  23. VSilver

    VSilver New Member

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    You ask what makes Russians look like Germans Nazi. The answer is: it`s your mindset and your points.

    You said there was the reason for oppression of Crimean Tatars in the past - you advocate crimes against minorities as Nazi did.
    You say Russia has the right to occupy to protect Russians abroad - Nazi did the same way, they said about their right to occupy to protect Germans abroad.
    You posted pics with happy people meeting Russian Occupation Army - Nazi also shown pics with happy people meeting Nazi "Liberators".

    The facts are:

    1. Russia invaded and occupied part of Ukraine. Russia violated the Budapest Memorandum.
    2. Russia organized untrusted Voting after Russian military invasion. The Voting had no legal warranty.
    3. There is a shortage of the human rights during Russian occupation, Russia oppresses indigenous Crimean Tatars.

    Russians in military uniform kidnaped Tatar, he was found deadly tortured soon. It was not single incident.
    [video=youtube;11S2Vhkr-bc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11S2Vhkr-bc[/video]

    Crimea Tatars endure second tragedy under Russian rule
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...a-tatars-endure-second-tragedy-under-russian/
     
  24. Alik Bahshi

    Alik Bahshi Member

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    And after that, Rus says free referendum in the Crimea.
     
  25. VSilver

    VSilver New Member

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    Yes, modern Russians are like past Nazi - they advocate if some people are happy and welcome invaders, that occupation is not the aggression but "the Liberation".
    As past Nazi, modern Russians oppress indigenous Crimean Tatars. Tatars are abducted, tortured and murdered.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    European Parliament resolution of 12 May 2016 on the Crimean Tatars (2016/2692(RSP))

    the Russian Federation has illegally annexed Crimea and Sevastopol and is therefore an occupying state which has violated international law, including the UN Charter, the Helsinki Final Act, the 1994 Budapest Memorandum and the 1997 Treaty of Friendship, Cooperation and Partnership between the Russian Federation and Ukraine

    Crimean Tatar institutions and organisations are increasingly branded as ‘extremists’ and prominent members of the Crimean Tatar community are, or risk, being arrested as ‘terrorists’; whereas the abuses against Tatars include abduction, forced disappearance, violence, torture and extrajudicial killings that the de facto authorities have failed to investigate and prosecute, as well as systemic legal problems over property rights and registration;

    the Russian Federation has been restricting access to Crimea for the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), the UN and the Council of Europe, not to mention human rights NGOs and independent journalists; whereas the lack of access makes human rights monitoring and reporting in Crimea very difficult;

    the Mejlis has now been declared an extremist organisation and included in the Russian Justice Ministry’s list of NGOs whose activities must be suspended; whereas the activities of the Mejlis have consequently been banned in Crimea and in Russia; whereas this ban could apply to more than 2 500 members of 250 village and town mejlises in Crimea;

    The European Parliament condemns the severe restrictions on the freedoms of expression, association and peaceful assembly,
    Condemns restrictions on free media in Crimea

    Calls on the European External Action Service and the Council to strengthen pressure on the Russian Federation to allow international organisations access to Crimea for the purpose of monitoring the human rights situation in view of the ongoing gross violations of fundamental freedoms and human rights in the peninsula, and of establishing permanent international monitoring and convention-based mechanisms; stresses that any international presence on the ground should be well coordinated, agreed with Ukraine and supported by the major international human rights organisations;
     

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