Jaw dropping- New 9/11 footage destroys main stream narrative

Discussion in '9/11' started by Flare, Sep 13, 2016.

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  1. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    I have watched and read persuasive arguments against the various theories. When I realized the grassy knoll theory was utter bunk I became even more skeptical. Google JFK 2 shooters ABC. The ABC summary offers a plausible explanation of the video. Could Oswald have been part of a conspiracy? Of course. Whenever anyone involved with the Mafia and murder plots against deadly tyrants is murdered there will be doubts.

    The 9/11 USG conspiracy theories seem far more frivolous.
     
  2. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    There.

    I knew this subject was going to attract True Believers and other people who just can't trust their own eyes or rationality - and who are not only damn proud of it, but also feel anger when a black sheep takes its distance from the herd.
     
  3. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    The Catholic Church is not the USG. Government employees have no motive for engaging in a massive conspiracy to murder thousands of Americans. Even when the USG has had some plausible "good" excuse for covering up the truth - it leaks.
     
  4. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    I don't care who did it and where he precisely was. To enter these topics really is mucking up my point, which is: It is obvious that the shot came front the cavalcade's front. From there, I don't believe the official explanation, since I have seen their conclusions being destroyed by Zapruder's film, which for me has much more weight than "experts".

    I have no "what really hapenned" scenario of my own, no culprits, no accusations etc. I simply know that we have been lied to.

    The official version of this whole Kennedy assassination thing is ripe with extraordinary coincidences, weird physics and stretched-out situations that demand a greater suspension of disbelief that I am capable of. Seems nothing behaved normally on that day.
     
  5. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    It is always a safe assumption that officials lie, but the ABC explanation (drawn from experts) for the head popping back from the strike to the back of the head is at least plausible. The film does not IMO prove that the shot came from the front. The article pointed out that the rear seat was elevated over the front seat. I did not know that. It supports the single bullet theory.

    Nevertheless, the possibility of an elaborate conspiracy to kill JFK is far more plausible than the theory that American bureaucrats conspired to bring down the towers.
     
  6. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    Recall that your first statement was "Americans can't keep secrets". That is a false statement.

    I know the Catholic church is not the USG, and I also know that the USG is notorious for its mendacity in so many ways.

    It is a juvenile and absurd view to think that compartmentalized bureaus and the humans that make them cannot keep secrets. One of the results of the Pentagon Papers was that, according to the final congressional report about them, "purposeful withholding and distortion of facts" had been done by the pentagon.

    Please spare me the naïve talk.
     
  7. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    Let's agree on that.

    What I believe in 9-11's case, it that Mossad (these famous "dancing Israelis") had information that they didn't pass to their American counterparts, or that this info was ill-handled.

    That's me - I am like that. When I am being lied to, or being abused in some way, I stay being weary of the person that fooled me. You know, these Holocaust-denying laws that we have in some countries? The very concept of an "enforced truth" was enough for me to start doubting it really hapenned. It turned me from a believer to a doubter overnight.

    Truth doesn't need "enforcement" - only research and some time.
     
  8. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    Americans do not keep secrets. Hence the movie. Those priest/criminals had a strong motive for committing their crimes and covering them up - sexual obsession and fear of punishment.

    What motive would American bureaucrats have for participating in a massive conspiracy to commit a heinous mass murder in the first place?

    A pay bonus? A promotion? Have you ever known any government bureaucrats?
     
  9. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I know, if it doesn't agree with the US government's stories it's always wrong. Only the US government's claims are fact, everything else is wrong.

    Look in the mirror son, that's all you ever do here, yap wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong like a broken record with no supporting anything. A total waste of time and I'm wasting my time even responding to your contrarian drivel.
     
  10. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    Unless that government is Obama's, of course.
     
  11. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    It is up to you to provide evidence as you made the false claim.

    And there is nothing unusual about such disasters
     
  12. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    This has been discussed before.

    You are not unique in your mistrust of government nor especially enlightened, Most demand government accountability and in fact the government has evidence in this case while you do not.

    it is not about taking government at its word it is about the evidence which the government provided but you never have.

    Your reaction to not trusting the government is as mindless and knee jerk as those who blindly trust the government.

    I have made no claims requiring evidence which is why I have not provided any you on the other hand HAVE made such claims repeatedly but you never provide facts or evidence of any kind whatsoever in any thread. The burden is on you
     
  13. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    Wrong.

    You are the true believer who refuses to address facts. Yes what one sees with one's own eyes can be very deceiving. This is why they have investigators and autopsies which examine hardcore evidence which you willfully ignore. Yes you have seen endless people shot in movies and on TV but that is not real. People do not move or act predictably when shot that is fact. Your premise is that they do but that is a false premise.
     
  14. MVictorP

    MVictorP Well-Known Member

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    Utter sht.

    When people are hit by a bullet, they are hit by a physical object, not a space/time singularity.

    Basic physics apply.

    You are selling none of your regular codswallop today, my friend. One more instance of poster-talk and you are on "ignore" - So do it to me before I do it to you.
     
  15. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    Yes physics apply but you have no grasp of physics.

    The human skeleton and muscular system is designed to defy gravity which is why we walk upright. An impact of a small object can cause massive damage but seldom PUSHES people. This is why their reaction of unpredictable they move back or forward or sideways or drop like a rock or whatever.

    But they do not consistently move away from the gun.

    Sorry those are facts and whether you choose to ignore them or not they cannot be refuted and they prove you wrong,.
     
  16. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    If you watched the movie, then you know the dark secret was kept for many long years. A conspiracy of silence, if you will. So yes, eventually the secret was outed, even as those who had kept it for all those years were most uncomfortable in their cognitive dissonance.

    The motives for government bureaucrats are almost infinite. For Bement and the gang at NIST, their motives were just to play along, to be good "team players" and collect their government paycheck. In Bement's case, just to return the favor to the man who appointed him, his long time friend.

    But let me be clear that IMO Bement and NIST did NOT conspire to kill anybody. They did very much conspire to cover up the truth, but they did not conspire to destroy the towers. I hope you can see the difference.

    Yes, I have known a few government bureaucrats, mostly in the FAA but also in other fields. I am familiar with the government mindset.
     
  17. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    If you know the mindset of a bureaucrat you know they would never participate in a plot to commit mass murder. That kind of thing requires dedication, commitment and courage or fanatic devotion to such a goal.. Most bureaucrats are by nature rather timid chickens - squealers. Surely you know that.
     
  18. Eleuthera

    Eleuthera Well-Known Member Donor

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    I understand your point. Yes, the average faceless and mindless bureaucrat keeps his mouth and mind shut, and does what he is told.

    But that point is rather washed out when one understands that the average bureaucrat does whatever it takes to keep his job. They are not hired for independent thinking or action. They are hired for their ability to assume the herd mentality and look the other way when rules are broken. They are conditioned to be a team player and to keep whatever conscience they might have in check.

    Whistleblowers are very much the opposite, but their term of employment with any given bureau ends when they rock the boat. Think Binney, Snowden, Ellsberg and many others.

    The average person who does a career in government makes his deal with the devil early in the process.
     
  19. Ddyad

    Ddyad Well-Known Member

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    American bureaucrats will not make that kind of a deal - they are not risk takers. Most are members of a powerful union and know that they do not have to obey illegal orders. Even soldiers do not have to do that. The idea that a bunch of bureaucrats would knowingly join a conspiracy to commit mass murder is IMO far fetched.

    Even a bunch of hardened clandestine operators would balk at such a heinous project. Even a sociopath would know that everyone involved was a potential witness against them.
     
  20. Soupnazi

    Soupnazi Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing to support your assertion of such a conspiracy theory have zero evidence proving it

    - - - Updated - - -

    Those are all assertions without a shred of evidence and easily proven wrong.

    The average government employee may not take risks but will also not engage in such crimes and conspiracies as you describe.
     
  21. Bob0627

    Bob0627 Well-Known Member

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    What will this section of the forum be without Dr. No?
     
  22. jack4freedom

    jack4freedom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Firemen are notoriously anti-Semitic...lol
     
  23. jack4freedom

    jack4freedom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Those who don't go along with the official story are anti-Semites.
     
  24. jack4freedom

    jack4freedom Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    One thing is for sure, if those Mossad agents celebrating from the rooftop in Jersey and apprehended with fake passports and wads of cash on 9/11/01 had been PLO affiliates, they would still be in Guantanomo. The Israelis were released after a couple months.
     
  25. phoenyx

    phoenyx Well-Known Member

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    Very good point on truth. As to the dancing Israelis, from what I've seen, there's a lot of evidence that they were complicit in the 9/11 attacks. There were -other- Israelies that tried to warn the U.S. about impending attacks. That's the thing about countries and their intelligence services- they can have both good guys -and- bad guys and naturally, the bad guys aren't going to be telling the good guys what they're up to. But the good guys can still hear things, through various channels, enough to know that something's going down, without knowing the exact details. Have you heard of a FBI whistleblower named Sibel Edmonds?
     

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