'Nazi Grandma' sent to jail again for Holocaust denial

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by SamSkwamch, Oct 12, 2016.

  1. supaskip

    supaskip Well-Known Member

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    I have to admit that I think it's a stupid law.
    The only real reason I can see it being in place is to stop the spread of such views, which makes you wonder why someone cannot hold that view.

    I'm sure you can deny the holocaust whilst still not agreeing with anything Hitler may stand for, etc, and not condoning any hatred against the Jewish people, so I would not agree that denying alone is seen as "hate speech"....
     
  2. truth and justice

    truth and justice Well-Known Member

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    if this story is true then all those who have stated that no one has been jailed in Germany for Holocaust denial needs to start thinking of different responses.
     
  3. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Most of those locked up for thought crimes that debunk the dogma of your vague & fragile Holocaustian Cult have far more intellect, education & courage than you display in your puerile Boilerplate Hasbara Posts.

    What, exactly, constitutes Holocaust® Denial & why is open, civil & honest debate so threatening to your Cult?

    Sorry, "Freedom of Expression" also includes the Freedom of Expressing thoughts that refute your pet fantasies.



    No, it's not
    Just because the Holocaust® Industry has succeeded in placing totalitarian laws on the books of otherwise "Democratic Nations" only speaks to the wealth, power & influence of the Holocaust® Industry, not the veracity of the myths those laws seek to promulgate.

    The Truth welcomes the sunlight of close examination & open discussion while a Lie can only survive under the darkness of totalitarian censorship.
     
  4. SamSkwamch

    SamSkwamch Banned

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    LOL again!

    The moron claiming to be an archeologist found bathroom tiles from a bathroom and dug up bones in a clearly marked Christian cemetery outside of Treblinka.

    If you want to continue stating that that is irrefutable evidence, then you are only serving to prove how ridiculous locking up that poor women truly is. And the fact that the BBC made a TV special of the charade only proves how low these people will stoop to keep their lies alive.
     
  5. krashsmith81

    krashsmith81 New Member

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    2 things:

    1 you are right, she has the right to her beliefs without being jailed.

    2 - people who don't believe that the Holocaust took place are stupid beyond words.
     
  6. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    So, we can put you down as "Against Free Speech" especially when it debunks your fragile & specious Holocaustian dogma.

    What other freedoms do you hate?
     
  7. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No I have no problem with free speech.

    In fact I am exercising it right now when I tell you that I passionately hate jew hating, nazi apologizing, racist, bigoted, holocaust deniers who wouldn't know the truth if was rammed up their arse.

    Any other questions?
     
  8. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Moron claiming to be an archeologist? Get a grip.
    Like I said, no matter what the facts, the majority of holocaust deniers can only lie. And responses like yours sure as hell offer up irrefutable proof of exactly how low they will go which imho is as low as whale poop.
     
  9. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Which Holocaust?

    Very few people dispute the fact that millions died & suffered miserably in the many different Internment Camps around the world during WW 2

    For Example:

    “Eisenhower’s Holocaust: His Slaughter Of 1.7 Million(*)Germans!”
    https://socioecohistory.wordpress.c...locaust-his-slaughter-of-1-7-million-germans/


    However, until there is a firm & precise definition of "Holocaust® Denial", any meaningful debate on the topic seems hopeless & Hasbara Trolls welcome "Holocaust denier" as a supplement to "anti Semite" & "Jew Hater" in their inventory of epithets essential to their unseemly job.

    Unfortunately, the deaths, suffering & misery of the millions of non Jews who have simply gone on with their lives have been discarded as meaningless by exploitative Zionist Holocaustians who attempt to make the focus, Profit making & Pity marketing exclusively to just Jewish suffering for a crass & obscenely corrupt "Reparations Racket" as exposed by Norman Finkelstein's "The Holocaust Industry" & the establishment of a Zionist Colony in Palestine.

    According to the ADL, it's a "Scary" reality that Billions of educated, well informed & honest people around the world are "Holocaust deniers". Strangely enough, most of them are Hindus, not Muslims.



    “Did the Holocaust Exist? Scary Number of People Say 'No' or Not Even Aware”
    http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/at...ary-number-of-people-say-no-or-not-even-aware

    EXCERPT “Half of the people in the world have never heard of the Holocaust, ADL found.

    And in the other half – the ones who have at least heard of the Holocaust and the truth that Adolf Hitler ordered the deaths of 6 million Jews – a third of this group simply did not believe the Holocaust happened. To this group, the Holocaust is a lie, a myth, a hoax, a conspiracy by those with a political or ideological agenda.CONTINUED



    Do you really think that countless Westerners & Hindus who simply don't find it credible that: the Germans executed 6 Million Jews"
    ?
     
  10. randlepatrickmcmurphy

    randlepatrickmcmurphy Well-Known Member

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    So she told an obvious lie that throws salt in the emotional pain of millions worldwide. No, she shouldn't be jailed, just ridiculed for her idiocy.

    And don't think your peppering this forum with anti-Semitic threads has gone unnoticed. You're not fooling anyone.
     
  11. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Yes, in your sad & lonely world of "passionate" hate, Holocaustianity, & Hasbara, have you ever heard:


    “When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser. “-Socrates
     
  12. SamSkwamch

    SamSkwamch Banned

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    Prove it if the lie is so obvious. That is the point of free speech. All we get for proof are ad hominem attacks and lies that are repeated over and over.

    I have never posted anything anti-Semitic. I was raised Jewish and post what is happening in our world. Because MSM for the most part will not report these things and because those who support the zionist agenda cannot dispute facts, I get labeled incorrectly this way as you have just done. Please use the quote function to show I have posted even one thing that is anti-Semitic.

    And while you are at it, riddle me this. Why do these people get to decide which holocausts are OK TO DENY? Specifically, why is it OK to deny the first holocaust myth that some Jews tried to perpetuate on our world?

    Do you believe in the original holocaust of 64,000,000 Jewish children as well, where they were wrapped in scrolls and burnt to death?

    Gittin 58a of the Babylonian Talmud:

    "There were four hundred synagogues in the city of Bethar, and in every one were four hundred teachers of children, and each one had under him four hundred pupils, and when the enemy entered there they pierced them with their staves, and when the enemy prevailed and captured them, they wrapped them in their scrolls and burnt them with fire."

    400 synagogues x 400 teachers/synagogue x 400 pupils/teacher = 64,000,000 children
     
  13. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Re:

    No problem, among the countless facts debunking your Holocaustian dogma is the following single simple fact I've posted before & that your gullible Holocaustians consistently evade:

    1. “In 1941, British Intelligence analysts cracked the German “Enigma” code. This undermined the German war effort – but also threw new light on day-by-day events in the Nazi concentration camp system.

    The revealed information does not expose a program of mass murder and racial genocide. Quite the opposite: it reveals that the Germans were determined, desperate even, to reduce the death rate in their work camps, which was caused by catastrophic typhus epidemics."[1]


    The primary executioner was typhus, not "gassing"; a myth that has been poured into the heads of countless captive school children by de facto agents of the wealthy, corrupt, $ Multi-Billion Holocaust® Industry:


    2. " There are NO autopsy reports of any Nazi gassing victims from any western doctors. Although there were many thousands of corpses available in German concentration camps by the end of the war and although at least 1,000 autopsies were performed, none showed any evidence of death by poison gas or poison. Dr. Charles P. Larson made those autopsies to find proof of gassings but found nothing. No other western doctors ever claimed to have found any forensic medical evidence of gassings either." [2]

    The most horrific & barbaric Death Camps were run by Eisenhower [3] & the Soviets who, unlike the Germans, refused to allow Red Cross inspections.

    So, what was the wartime assessment of the Red Cross inspections? I stress "wartime" reports because after the War, we all know that "The Victors Write the History"

    3. ""Clearly, the German authorities were at pains to relieve the dire situation as far as they were able. The Red Cross are quite explicit in stating that food supplies ceased at this time due to the Allied bombing of German transportation, and in the interests of interned Jews they had protested on March 15th, 1944 against "the barbarous aerial warfare of the Allies".
    By October 2nd, 1944, the ICRC warned the German Foreign Office of the impending collapse of the German transportation system, declaring that starvation conditions for people throughout Germany were becoming inevitable."[4]



    Typhus was so widespread due to lack of medicine & other life sustaining supplies that 14,000 Inmates died in Belsen AFTER the arrival of the British.
    Should the British C.O. have been prosecuted for "War Crimes" for the 14,000 Inmates who died under his control?







    [1]"Breaking the Spell, The Holocaust: Myth & Reality" by Nicholas Kellerstrom --
    https://www.amazon.com/Breaking-Spe...spell&keywords=breaking+the+spell+kellerstrom


    [2] "SIMPLE REASONS FOR REJECTING THE HOLOCAUST HOAX"
    https://holocaustdeprogrammingcourse.com/2015/01/27/simple-reasons-for-rejecting-the-holocaust-hoax/


    [3] “Eisenhower’s Holocaust: His Slaughter Of 1.7 Million(*)Germans!”
    https://socioecohistory.wordpress.c...locaust-his-slaughter-of-1-7-million-germans/
    EXCERPT "It is known, that the Allies had sufficient stockpiles of food and medicine to care for these German soldiers.
–
This was deliberately and intentionally denied them. Many men died of gangrene from frostbite due to deliberate exposure. Local German people who offered these men food, were denied."CONTINUED


    [4] “A Factual Appraisal Of The 'Holocaust' By The Red Cross;
    The Jews And The Concentration Camps:No Evidence Of Genocide”
    http://www.polskawalczaca.com/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=18054
     
  14. Grau

    Grau Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    For the sake of clarity, I'll post our previous exchanges:

    To which I replied:


    Before joining the US Army, I took the following oath:

    I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."


    As an Honorably Discharged Paratrooper, I am no longer under the constraints of the UCMJ but I, like most loyal American Veterans, don't consider the date of my DD 214 to be the "Expiration Date" of my commitment to: "...support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic;"

    While you may disagree with the views of Mrs. Haverbeck, if you knew anything about her you would know that she, like most Historians who reject the specious myths surrounding the Holocaust®, is no "idiot" & far better educated than her persecutors & brainwashed detractors.

    While Mrs. Haverbeck is not a US citizen your stance that:
    reflects a fascist mentality that is incompatible with the ethical make-up of any honorable US Soldier & is clearly at odds with the oath I took and still support.
     
  15. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    and once again, the same tired old debunked CRAP !!!!!

    Nice little display of an intellectually impoverished tactics. Keep fooling yourself because you sure as hell ain't fooling anyone with an IQ above single digits.


    [2] the simplest reasons for rejecting the holocaust are a) deplorable and dispicable jew hate b)intellectual bankruptcy c) inability to process factual information d) need to feel superior to something besides pond scum.
     
  16. Caligula

    Caligula Well-Known Member

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    Excuse me, but that is simply not true and a horribly superficial, overgeneralizing and highly inaccurate statement.
    I'm a German native speaker and have seen, heard and read numerous interviews and statements by this lady. She despises today's democratic system in Germany, used to be part of a small political party called ÖDP from which she was excluded because she wanted said party to form a coalition with the extreme right-wing neo nazi NPD, and has personally threatened German Jews in several letters ("If you continue like this, there might be a new pogrom which will be horrible").
    There is no sign of a historical-academic education, she uses typical Holocaust denying and Hitler/Nazism glorifying rhetoric. She is not even remotely as knowledgable as professional historians who have devoted their whole life to scientific research, e.g. Peter Longerich, Wolfgang Benz, Norbert Frei, all internationally acclaimed experts, but probably "brainwashed", right? (please, spare me this laughable "History is written by the victors blah.")

    This woman even uses publishings that provide inside into how Auschwitz was run (Standort- und Kommandanturbefehle des Konzentrationslagers Auschwitz 1940–1945. München 2000) and give insight into the bureaucracy behind the killings to support her utterly bizzare line of argumentation that there were no killings. She is, however, good at taking things out of context and putting them into a new and completely different context.
    She also denounces former SS man Oskar Gröning's testimony which he gave in court in Lübeck a couple of months ago and in which he clearly confirmed the selections, the killings, the gasings he witnessed between 1942 - 1944.
    Her argument was "he's too old to remember."

    This lady suffers from cognitive disonance and is a complete dimwit, nothing else.
    However, if one has sworn their life to ignore all this and believe with all their heart that nothing like that ever happened, and, at the same time, one suffers from a complete loss of reality or, for some reason, is possessed by the idea of belonging to a small elite group that has found "the truth", then she is probably brilliant.
     
  17. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    agree, totally ridiculous, while I may not agree with this grandma, I still think she has a right to believe whatever she wants

    .
     
  18. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    you forgot a reason, profit... profiting off idiots... many top truthers, birthers, ect.... did the same

    and of course another reason is... they may actually believe it

    regardless, it should not be a crime to believe in something incorrectly

    .
     
  19. Jonsa

    Jonsa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is when it foments hatred and attempt to rehabilitate a criminal banned political organization responsible for the deliberate and systematic murder of millions.
     
  20. Caligula

    Caligula Well-Known Member

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    This granny is not in court because of her beliefs, believing in this or that is not a crime, she's free to believe whatever she wants.
    The problem starts when somebody believes in Nazi ideology or denies the Holocaust and makes their beliefs public via articles in papers, journals, letters or tv/radio interviews.
    If I believe Hitler was the coolest guy ever and the Shoa never happened, I'm just a poor idiot. If I make public statements glorifying the Nazi ideology and denying the Holocaust, I'll be in legal trouble.
     
  21. tkolter

    tkolter Well-Known Member

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    You know denying the Holocaust is illegal in several nations in Europe including Germany. So she should keep her opinion to herself.
     
  22. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    that is not what she was charged with, it she was trying to start a Nazi death squad or something I would agree with you....

    - - - Updated - - -

    you know that here we have freedom of speech so I can say whatever I want in this regard
     
  23. DrewBedson

    DrewBedson Active Member

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    "" Haverbeck-Wetzel was convicted for the crime of incitement of hatred for denying the Holocaust in a letter she sent to the Central Council of Jews in Germany, as well as on her website.

    In Germany, the crime of incitement of hatred refers to actions that encourage hatred or violence towards a group of people because of their religion, race or ethnic background. It also punishes any individual, who publicly "approves of, denies or downplays" the actions of the Nazis which violated international law, by up to five years in prison.""
     
  24. FreshAir

    FreshAir Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    yep, not all Countries have freedom of speech like we do here, we may not like the kkk here, but we let them believe what they want
     
  25. Eadora

    Eadora Well-Known Member

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    Well - when it comes to incitement of hate - Pamela Geller fills the toilet bowl
    What are the chances of her being arrested if she enters Germany ?

    & Again:
    If your Truth cannot fight the Hate & the Lies that assail it, and you need to apply
    threat, censorship & oppression to support it. Then perhaps your Truth is not worth
    .........................................................................................................a Tinkers Dam

    Perhaps you should look more closely at what you believe to be the Truth

    Perhaps it is YOU who is the Liar
     

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