Could anybody explain us those Jésus' teachings, please !

It is not possible for God to be "fair" with us. No where in does the bible even imply that God is fair with us. It is infinitely more impossible for God to be fair with His creatures than it is for an author to be fair with her characters.

In relationships between equals, one's responsibility for them self extends from their authority over them self. These are referred to as "free will" relationships. In relationships between sovereigns and subjects, like between Creator and creature or author and character, the subject's responsibility for them self extends from the sovereign's authority over them.

No matter what one thinks of them self or what that one thinks of God, God is much more and they are much less.

 

Trevor's motivations are not relevant. Nice deflection. Cute dodge.

Tell us the part again about how one of your sky fairies is going to appear someday and kill all the humans who don't believe in him. That's some funny stuff and the Stockholm Syndrome reaction of those infected with that nonsense (like you) is particularly entertaining.

 

I don't believe in any god. The trouble with religion is the problems it causes. Belief in the Christian god has, down the centuries, caused the death of millions of people. Belief in the mythical allah is causing the death of millions. Belief in any god has caused the death of millions down the millenia. The rights to individual personal freedom is just what religion is not about. It impinges on the lives of non-believers. E.g. .The Roman Catholic Church holds its people fast with false teachings and false hopes. False because most of it is adapted Judaistic teaching, not the teaching of Jesus.

 

Mostly boils down to the Golden Rule...

... 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you'...

... try finding anything like it inna Quran.

 

Woah. Get a newer translation. English appears to have changed a bit since your copy of the Bible was written.

40 “Whoever welcomes you welcomes me; and whoever welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me. 41 Whoever welcomes God's messenger because he is God's messenger, will share in his reward. And whoever welcomes a good man because he is good, will share in his reward. 42 You can be sure that whoever gives even a drink of cold water to one of the least of these my followers because he is my follower, will certainly receive a reward.”

Reads a little easier.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew+10&version=GNT

 

Then think how much the Bible and its meaning have changed over 2-3000 years. I'll say again. Unless you know the times, history and culture against which the Bible was written, you will never really understand it.

I have no problem with the translation you have given, by the way.

 

That strikes me as absurd sophistry
Where is there good in god who permits babies to be born with autism, or die via abortion, or tsunami, or malnutrition, or holocaust

...and lets hace no saccharine excuse that humans cannot understand the ways and plan of god. If humans cannot understand, what is the point of the bible... or the pretense that we have free will?

 

And belief in atheism via communism has killed and harmed far more than all religion.

You can claim the Roman Catholic Church "holds its people fast" - where are the chains? Americans are not chained to the Catholic Church, or any church. Americans choose to believe, they are not forced. Did someone force you to be an atheist? If you believe in freedom, then you have to accept that people are not going to do what you want them to do, so stop trying to force people to do your bidding.

 

Every single book in the world was written by man. Does that mean they are all fake? Pick and choose I guess! I pick the Bible. The Bible was written by man, through God.

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It was done through God.

 

Prove it. Can you tell me how many have been killed in the name of Islam? How many Babylonians were killed by the Persian King Cyrus in the name of his god Marduk? How many were supposedly killed by the Hebrews in the name of their god Jahweh, if you believe the OT.

Your statement is meaningless in the known history of the world. Much is not known but we know that simple religions were in existence before recorded history.

The Catholic Church has chained its people to beliefs it propogates. Cotraceptions is forbidden, transubstantiation 'must' be accepted before communion is given. It will not allow other communicants from Sects (C of E) etc, except in special occasions, and does not agree that its own should participate in others.

Have you read the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church? A long, tedious document of what you must believe to be a true Catholic. Like the C of E, and other Protestant beliefs, there are probably more 'nominal' christians than real Christians. People who do not actually believe, but want to be safe - just in case.

I'm not trying to stop anyone doing what they want. They are free men and women. What many of us do is to point out the problems faced by those who accept the Bible without actually understanding it.

After all, if Jesus is supposed to have said the 'Great Commision' (which was added later) he knew there would be opposition. If people want to believe obvious errors, interpretations and exaggerations they are at liberty to do so. That doesn't mean no-one should point them out to them.

No. But if someone had pointed out what I know now, I would have become an agnostic long before I did.

 

Because that right there, the last sentence you just wrote, completely undoes all of the good will and philanthropy championed by the other verses quoted in this thread.

Be good to one another? Okay, with you so far. Oh, but everyone who doesn't believe the way I do is going to be tortured for eternity? Yeah, that's where you lose me. Christians like this build up the importance of love and empathy only to teach that all of that goes out of the window after death.

 

200,000,000 were killed by communism just in the 20th century. In the 1st century, the world population is estimated as 180 million - communism killed more people in the 20th century than the entire world population in 100 AD.

In the 9 Crusades over 200 years, about 200,000 were killed. Assuming the Crusades were actually motivated by religion and not by people who were motivated by worldly desires for power and wealth and used religion and nationalism as the banner to achieve their secular ends.

The world populations were just not that large until recently.

 

Really? The truth is no-one actually knows. Estimates for the number vary wildly - even by experts - as to the number. Montefoire - Stalins biographer, Politburo member Yakelov, Johnathon Brent 'Annals of Communism' put the total around 20 million in the USSR under Stalin. Add to that earlier numbers under Lenin etc. we have nowhere the number you quote.
Even if you take into account South East Asia and China we're well short of that number. Then you have to take into account the problems that communism caused in famines etc in the USSR and under Mao in China. Archives in China estimate 45 million died in this agrarian famine. Though millions died these were not deliberate killings but the result of bad economics and farming.

Now The worlds population in 100 AD

. No-one knows. The American continent, North and South, was unknown. How many Inca's were there? How many Aztecs? How many were there in tribes across the southerncontinent. How many natives in the Northern continent? Most of Africa was unknown. Most of the north Asian continent was unknown. Australia was unknown. Show me a census that includes all these.

 

Whew, so God did create all this. Not man as you were claiming. Glad we agree.

 

Good is what God is. Evil is what God is not. God reveals both good and evil because anything, even God, is revealed just as much by what it is not as it is by what it is.

 

Your language is that of a 5th grader!

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You don't want to believe in Jesus.............simply don't! I choose to believe in Jesus, so what's the problem?

 

Written by men, through God. Like Noah, God found people that was walking in righteousness, he chose these people to write His word, by what He told them to write and the visions He gave them. Fear kept His word true.

 

If you want to believe that some of your friends and loved ones will be tortured for eternity, that's fine. I don't, so what's the problem?

 

They only torture themselves. Jesus is there for everybody!!!! And I love God and Jesus more than anybody, so what's the problem?

 

If you have no problem with eternal torture for those you say you love, then you have no problem with it. I would have a problem with it. I don't see anything praiseworthy about psychopathy, and I often feel bad for people who believe in such things despite being better than that, so I often have discussions with them about it. I don't see why anyone who would claim to value love in one breath, but lavish praises on a tortuous devil with the next.

If you feel the need to tell people they are wrong and that they are going to hell, then surely you understand why someone might want to respond by saying that is wrong (sans threats of hell).

 

Not all atheists are communists and not all communists are atheists. And no, there is no objective way of arguing for the idea the communism has killed more people than all religion. People typically arrive at those numbers by only looking at the past century and a half, and even then by inflating the communist side with deaths from famine while ignoring, say, diseases spread by Christians in the Americas, wiping out almost an entire continent. Or by playing loose with "Oh, those deaths from religious people don't count because there was political stuff going on too."

 

Plenty of people reject it for they blame the condition of all of these people upon themselves. It is their fault they are where they are, so (*)(*)(*)(*) em. It anti Christian to hold such attitudes, but many of these people who look down on the poor call themselves Christian. Jesus did not give a caveat when he taught this principle.

A real Christian has died to his own self image, his ego, and would do such things naturally. If you have not died to yourself, transcended the creator of sin, the ego as it seeks its own gratification, you can fake it of course, giving to the poor. And that is better than not giving to the poor although selfish motives drive his kind of giving. They are like people who pray in the streets to make others think they are holy.

The whole gist of what Christ taught, which would have given a rise to a different kind of Christianity, is pure and very simple. He taught one had to die tot he old self, the ego and be reborn into a consciousness not ruled over by the creator of all sin, the ego. That got lost when man corrupted what Christ was, and turned him into another jewish blood sacrifice. So no one listens to what he died to teach. He brought the good news to man, and they corrupted it. Lining up to assume new positions of power and authority in a new religious organization, created by man to serve man. In man's own selfish self interests. Now you know why the religion that arose from Christ killed so many and tortured so many people for a couple thousand years. Hard to find love your neighbor in that activity.

 

I did not state that all atheists are communists, but all communists are atheists. Its fundamental to their philosophy.

The famine created by communists was either deliberate (as in the famine created by Stalin in order to "cleanse" the Ukraine) or a direct byproduct of their ideology. Disease spread by exploration (not by Christianity, there is nothing at all in Christianity which says people should be exterminated) is an accident, not a deliberate attempt to eliminate people.

The past 150 years is when communism gathered momentum, rose to power, subjected vast parts of the world, and largely collapsed. Communism had free rein to demonstrate its worth, it demonstrated its barbaric inhumanity.

You can argue the numbers, but you cannot get away from the fact that communism had its moment and proved itself an utter failure and a disaster to all those who had to suffer under it.

 

Sorry, but no. Yes, Marx saw it as fundamental, but communism predates Marx and not all communists listened to Marx on the subject. There have been plenty of religious communists. Yes, that goes for my own religion as well, despite the massive bloodshed between communists and members of my religion.

That's literally what I was arguing. Religious folks have been killing people for millenia. The is no rational way to argue that communists caught up with those numbers in a century and a half or so.

Do you see anyone arguing against that?

 

Communism did not demonstrate its barbarity. Its leaders did. And was it really Communism or State Capitalism. There never was a real Communist state which treated all men as equals, a true communist class structure.