Donald Trump, Coal Miners & the myth about 'clean coal'.

During his campaign, Donald Trump focused on the jobs and industries that will likely be affected the most which is coal production and also those plants using coal as an energy source. He promised them that they would not lose their jobs as coal miners because we still need 'clean coal'. With newly discovered reserves and the advent of hydrofracturing technology, there has been a significant increase in the country’s reliance on natural gas as an energy source, steering even further away from coal. In addition, the steadily increased use of solar, wind, and other alternative energy sources, has meant a decline in coal usage. 'Clean coal' is a myth, according to biochemists, scientists, geologists and environmentalists, and can be proven to cause health issues and have made an enormous negative effect on the atmosphere. Coal, to use the economists’ euphemism, is fraught with “externalities”—the heavy costs it imposes on society. It’s the dirtiest, most lethal energy source we have.

Donald Trump played right into the fears of coal miners when they expressed concerns for their jobs due to regulations and the clean air act. Currently, there are less than 75,000 jobs throughout the entire United States that depends on the coal industry. Conversely, clean energy technologies in California alone employ more than 500,000 workers. It's just a fact that clean energy creates more jobs and makes the U.S. more prosperous than older technologies. If we want to leave our grandchildren a cleaner environment we have to make it happen today, not next year or the next decade, it has to begin right now.

 

I don't think coal is going away, but coal mining jobs have been declining since 1979.. They can mine coal using robotics.

Trump will say anything.. I wouldn't worry about it.

 

Where did you come up with 500,000 are employed in clean energy "technologies" in California ? By any chance the climate change bigot Gov. "Moonbeam" Jerry Brown ?

Renewable energy is expensive, really expensive, ask anyone who lives in California about their electric bills.

The average cost of electricity in California is 15.2 cents per KW !!! And it's going up in 2017 thanks to climate change bigots.

 

Until and unless you give legitimate sources that can be looked at for bias and authenticity this and everything else you said is pointless hyperbole and not worth responding to.

 

The actual jobs in the mine itself only represent a small fraction of jobs created by coal mining including the most obvious ones you yourself brought up, building and maintaining robot mining equipment.

"Altogether, Illinois coal mines produce 60 million tons of coal each year. This coal is mainly used to generate electricity at power plants in Illinois and throughout the Midwestern and southeastern United States; however, coal is also used to produce many other goods and services. Total coal sales bring more than $1.5 billion into the Illinois economy each year. The coal industry is essential to the livelihood and economic health of many communities in Illinois.
Many communities rely on the coal industry as a primary source of employment and income. In addition to jobs that are directly created at a coal mine, it is estimated that about five additional non-mine jobs are created for each miner employed in Illinois. That is because many other commodities and services are needed to support the mining operation and the miners’ families. In a few areas in Illinois, direct mining jobs and their spin-off jobs can account for as much as 50 percent of the total county employment."

http://www.coaleducation.org/lessons/sec/Illinois/ilecon.htm

 

Thank you.

 

Yep, and there are only 83,000 coal miners in the entire country... as mentioned, soon to be replaced by automation anyway, no doubt.

 

http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2011/10/27/141766341/the-price-of-electricity-in-your-state

Seven states INCLUDING Alaska are more expensive than California regarding electric rates. So Alaska can thank "climate change bigots" as well?

 

Go ahead with clean energy. Just quit passing laws that shove workers out of the coal industry. We have miners, truckers, railroad workers and plant workers depending on coal for their low cost electricity.

But win fairly. Don't make laws.

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Not to nit pick, but why use a link that is of data 5 years old, almost 6?

 

Multi-billionaire and 'green' financier Tom Steyer has stated that 'by the end of the year (2016) there will have been more than 500,000 Californians employed in the clean energy industry, AND will produce a net additional million jobs by 2030". http://www.pri.org/stories/2016-01-...-steyer-wants-accelerate-renewable-revolution

Take it or leave it as you wish, but this billionaire is willing to fight Trump tooth and nail to the last million on this issue.

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And don't change or totally remove laws that protect ALL of us, not just a few miners.

 

You are excluding those who handle coal. And the users of coal.

Why don't you guys win on the merits.

If you deliver me electric power at or below the rate from coal, i will gladly buy from you.

Compete though, and stop passing laws.

Here is what we learned in Ca on Wind power

PG&E told me via one of their engineers that PG&E has to pay a very high fee for wind power. It is not today clear to me if they get to pay that huge increase to we customers or not. Even so, the state sets rates.

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You want protection from low prices?

The way they force coal plants to deposit their CO2 deep in the ground seems like you have no threat nor need for protection.

 

I was talking about jobs. And handlers would simply be moved to other energy industries. 83,000 jobs is nothing. Under Bush we were loosing 600,000 month. Beyond that, coal jobs lost must be replace in other industries. We still need the energy. And the higher cost of energy results from the creation of MORE jobs than we have in coal now by getting rid of coal.

Because this isn't an economic problem. It is a scientific-environmental problem. Unfortunately facts don't care about popular opinion or economics. And there are no easy answers. But living in denial isn't an option - not if you care about the human race.

If 5 cents per KW-Hr on your electric bill is worth the future of humanity, if you're children aren't worth 5 cents, so be it. I don't have kids so I really have no skin in the game at this point. I am only arguing out of concern for humanity; you know, being a decent person who cares about more than just me and 5 cents per KW-Hr.

 

More importantly the research that you are doing into clean energy is exportable - and lucrative for the country. Clean energy is a huge barely tapped market especially for countries like South America and Asia . We develop reliable renewables and battery technology and we have a global market

 

Here are CA job numbers. Can you point to those of us who you may think of as slow, just where he gets that 500,000 number from?

http://www.bls.gov/eag/eag.ca.htm

I really studied it a lot. I find no industry that makes such claims.

 

Why is it that we hear how great it is from a few producers? Where is the glowing testimony by we the users?

Africa needs it. India needs it. Here in the USA, it drives up costs.

Now, maybe somebody does get less costly energy. But one might think we could find them bragging about it. So why the secret?

 

There was need to even say Bush. If you want to do that, under Bush his top spending only netted this country a national debt of about 5 trillion more than he started with. Obama ran it up 10 trillion more.

How do you move a miner to a new field?

What about the loss of jobs to the rail and trucking industry? What do you do with those people? Do you force them or urge them or simply pay them for not working?

My direct contact with the FACTS come from a PG&E engineer. We talked about windmill power. It has to be sold to PG&E. The windmills do not connect to customers. PG&E is by state law forced to contract for windmill power. This is super costly to PG&E.

I believe he told me windmill power costs them double the cost of their own self generated power.Fact is, PG&E has not rushed to make it's own wind power and only buys it.

I have not accumulated numbers on solar power but one might think the producers would flock to that if it was better.

 

Here are two totally bogus arguments.

This is so silly it ought to be blanked out.

 

You have any facts on the number of jobs that clean energy has created ?

LICE Trump has managed to convince so many gaboomkas to vote for him based upon his lies. But I have said that LICE is a good politician and obviously he lied better than Hillary that is why LICE is POTUS-Elect.

You think any of the dark masses from Penn, WV , or Southern Ohio coal industry will ever realize that LICE Trump lied to them ?

 

Bull corn statement

If I tell you I will put out of work, and you will be forced to move to find a job, if you can get a company to hire you, you will come back saying jobs do matter.

When you deliberately shove miners, truck drivers, railroad people and many thousands more out of work, please tell them you care and you will hire them. if you won't hire one, then don't tell them you want to put them out of work.

 

Now here is a thought - EXPORT

You want jobs then be innovators That is how the automotive industry started in the USA So how much extra is it costing YOU and is that cost including the coal industry subsidies that have been leaching off the government teat for years?

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Work is not for life and never has been. People have to be prepared to move with the jobs otherwise they will stagnate

 

No it isn't. Clean coal = used with fewer sulphur dioxide (SO2), nitrogen oxides (NOx), carbon dioxide (CO2), mercury, and other chemical byproducts than natural coal. Clean coal technologies are being developed to remove or reduce pollutant emissions to the atmosphere. These include chemically washing minerals and impurities from the coal, gasification, improved technology for treating flue gases to remove pollutants, and dewatering lower rank coals (brown coals) to improve the calorific value, and thus the efficiency of the conversion into electricity. Figures from the United States Environmental Protection Agency show that these technologies have made today’s coal-based generating fleet 77 percent cleaner on the basis of regulated emissions per unit of energy produced.

https://www.epa.gov/air-trends

You really have to learn to start looking things up for yourself rather than mindlessly swallowing the crap these clowns spoonfeed to willing eaters. Hillary said she was going to fire a lot of coal workers and instead, a lot of coal workers fired Hillary. And that's a beautiful thing.

 

What is Trumps promises over "green energy?"

 

So, if you get shoved out of your job by me, you will forgive me?

Each time I cost study so called green energy, the costs skyrocket.

Give me a sound economic reason and stop the nonsense about climate. i don't mind it getting a little warmer, and that is all they claim it will get, a little more warm.

 

I want to bring in this study.

It is over the "Spanish green energy job bubble"

I want to start first with this article then switch you to the study

1. https://www.aei.org/publication/the-myth-of-green-energy-jobs-the-european-experience/

2,. Study http://instituteforenergyresearch.o...05/090327-employment-public-aid-renewable.pdf

 

I already knew that.

Every thing is really expensive in Hawaii and Alaska. I'm sure you know why ?