Why abortion is a good thing

Donohue-Levitt: http://pricetheory.uchicago.edu/levitt/Papers/DonohueLevittTheImpactOfLegalized2001.pdf

It can be a little distasteful due to the fact that abortion disproportionately affects women of lower income, lower education, higher likelihood of crime, domestic violence, etc.

I think if incomes, education, crime, and the empowerment of women were all improved, there would be less need for abortion services.

Therefore, abortion as a method to reduce crime isn't a "good" in and of itself. Legalizing abortion is one part of a strategy to break the negative cycles of poverty and dependency...and that is good.

 

Oh, don't let them confuse you, they were meant for emphasis for those with comprehension problems as to what "NO". means...


""Declaring that pregnancy has no effect on a woman's body is a ludicrous fringe viewpoint. NO one has ever proven that pregnancy doesn't cause harm. NO one.""

No, I am not .

Quote Originally Posted by FoxHastings View Post

Declaring that pregnancy has no effect on a woman's body is a ludicrous fringe viewpoint. NO one has ever proven that pregnancy doesn't cause harm. NO one.

I didn't change the subject to rape, I gave an example of how pregnancy affects women even in the law, you're the one who seems confused...

Consent may be withdrawn at anytime and has nothing to do with your denial that pregnancy affects women physically.

You sound like Anti-Choicers who want to punish women for having sex .

 

You are trying to discuss law and how the fetus could be accused of assault as a way to justify it's termination. It's not a new concept.
Ms Thompson didn't use of the word "consent" in the early 70's. You can't consent to assault. Courts look critically when a justification is "consent".
So you twist it in to "withdrawing consent" while also adding in concepts of rape. So keeping in line with the consent argument, the fetus did what to justify it's termination?

My personal justification is that the embryo does not have the moral status that prevents a woman from terminating her pregnancy if she so chooses.
As the embryo develops in to a fetus and the fetus develops more of the physiology that exponentially gives it the potential to develop in to a born person,
there is more of a question about what duties and responsibilities a society has to the unborn.

 

The fetus causes the woman it's in harm. What I listed , and you refuse to acknowledge, is that harm is justification for killing the fetus (self defense)

IF the woman does not consent to the harm(assault on her body).

YES, you CAN consent to assault as any boxer knows. Yes, that consent can be withdrawn.

None of that matters since the fetus is not a person. It can be killed. "Society" does give the fetus some protection once viability has been reached.

I have no duties or responsibilities towards the unborn....and no one else does either.








I didn't change the subject to rape, I gave an example of how pregnancy affects women even in the law, you're the one who seems confused...

 

My landlord wouldn't let me, but in an emergency i'd smuggle her in without telling him..
But at a previous address i used to invite prostitutes back to my flat for a cup of tea, and once I let one have my bed for the night after a client beat her up.
"You can get in with me if you like" she said in a sweet little voice, but I made some excuse not too, and I slept on the couch instead.
With hindsight I should have got in with her to cuddle her til she fell asleep because it was love and tenderness she needed, and I can't help feeling I let her down (sniffle)

 

Your questions aren't "inconvenient", my view is that abortions are fine IF-
1- continuing the pregnancy would pose severe health complications to the mother.
2- scans show the baby would be born severely handicapped mentally or physically.
3- But even if a woman doesn't want the baby, she should have it anyway, then give it up for adoption (there are lots of childless couple out there willing to adopt) or let the state take care of it in an orphanage.

 

Your little "personal anecdotes" are off topic, irrelevant, quite silly , and evading the actual topic ....

 

Ya, there's been lots of questions you haven't answered. You seem to think if something is inconvenient for you , it's OK.


Why would she want to damage her body, risk death and pother permanent damage like infertility, suffer pain, get huge financial debts, suffer career/educational setbacks, face time off work and possible job loss just to give a kid to someone else?...and make YOU feel good? ( Inconvenient questions ???????)
.
Your lack of concern for the unwanted child, just toss it in an orphanage and hope someone might want it, is typical of Anti-Choicers who just don't worry about "life" AFTER it's born.

 

I don't know about that argument, but abortion does have certain benefits. It's bound to reduce welfare costs and the number of broken homes and unwanted children. It is also important to women's health at times, since pregnancies can bring with them some terrible health complications. Whatever the moralistic arguments about killing an unborn life, it also has its more positive and necessary aspects. Plus, it sure beats the older & time-honored tradition of infanticide!

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I disagree with 3, because in the end it's a woman's choice whether she wants to carry a pregnancy through to term. She should not be forced to do that.

 

Then do not let me stop you

There are girls out there now in dire need of shelter and succour - so why are you not assisting NOW!! But that is only ONE. Take it from me there are far far far more than that!

 

Who decides?

No you have NOT answered the questions a

But then few do. It is why abortion laws do not work because the reality is far from cut and dried

 

The crux of the matter is- What rights does a foetus have, and is it a living human being or not?
None of us can really answer that question, not the medics or the clergy or anybody else, so the debate is stalemated.

 

How many children have you adopted?

 

I was nearly an aborted foetus myself and you're calling me silly (sniffle)..

 

What you think of it is irrelevant. It's not your body that is pregnant.

He is entitled to his opinion. I don't see him trying to get it made mandatory to abort DS fetuses.

 

YOUR body will never, ever face the effects of pregnancy. YOU will never be at risk for dying because you are pregnant.

 

My landlord is very strict about who I let in, for example he recently read me the riot act because I'd been feeding pigeons and seagulls on my windowsill.
But if a woman came up to me in the street and told me she was homeless and needed a roof, I'd smuggle her in regardless..
It almost happened one night a few weeks ago, a teenage girl sitting in a shop doorway asked if I could spare some cash so I gave her a £20 note, said goodnight and walked off and have been feeling slightly guilty ever since.
I mean, I should have got talking to her to find out more about her circumstances, but the bottom line is it just didn't feel right to talk to somebody young enough to be my grandaughter in case she got the wrong idea.
Anyway as I began to walk off, she could have called me back if she wanted to talk more, but she didn't..

 

Abortion is good. It allows a woman to terminate an unwanted pregnancy. That is a good thing. Also, there are fewer ppl in the world than there otherwise would be. I believe there's a study that shows that the crime rate has gone down since RvW.

 

you ENJOY lice??? I remember the scandal back in the 70s when we found lice in a hospital ward because pigeons had been nesting on the roof. I have to agree with Terry Prattchett - pigeons are the rats of the sky

Again that is just ONE. And you could always volunteer to work in a homeless shelter - it is the old story if you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem.

And you STILL have not answered as to who decides?

 

And the operative word here being UNWANTED pregnancy. Remove that and we will see abortion rates plummet.

Anyone who truly wants to reduce abortion should be advocating for affordable, RELIABLE contraception. We will never ban abortion all together because there will always remain those circumstances such as threat to the mother or foetal abnormality but those, in the main, are WANTED pregnancies gone tragically wrong.

 

That comment makes no sense whatsoever.......

But when one can't answer those inconvenient questions, nor present any coherent argument, one must desperately segue off topic into a fantasy.

 

Uh, the world outside yours has decided. The fetus is not a person so it has no rights, ...that's been decided.

Yes, some of "us " CAN answer that question (you are the one who can't answer questions).


The answer is a human fetus is human and living (that's OBVIOUS, duh), but not a human or person so it has no rights.

 

1- I've lived here for 14 years and I've not seen a single lice yet..
2- If you mean who decides abortion, every case is different like I've said before, so there's NO "one rule for all" solution..

PS- I was feeding some seagulls on the seafront last summer and some woman scientist came out of the nearby Marine Laboratory and told me to stop, but I said "Get back in there and fillet some kippers or whatever it is you do"..

 

Like I said, I don't know if a foetus has any rights legally or morally; some people say yes, some people say no, so how do we know which group is correct?

 

She was right Wild life should not be "fed" as it causes an increase in disease transmission

But again - who decides? If every case is individual who has the ultimate decision regarding that case.

Abortion is illegal here and it meant that a 12 year old girl had to go to the supreme court to apply for an abortion

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/bus...n/news-story/e12a68c9bb14b0350c9faadbf51c5581