Can we have a civil, thoughtful discussion on this?

That answers my question of "Is there such a thing as a non-ideological ideology?" It seems that you believe that by redefining the words we use to communicate to include your ideology your point of view becomes non-ideological.

That, is a very ideological view of an economy, ignoring reality and people, so I would have to reject it.

I would suggest a dictionary definition of the words being used to communicate with others is absolutely necessary in order to have a civil, thoughtful discussion on anything at all.

 

Quite clear, but even more so nonsensical.

 

I was aware of the difficulty (I recalled other conundrums eg should intolerance be tolerated) hence I declined to answer (apart from the lateness of the hour).

So we all have a different world view. Fine.

But

1. does reason have power over instinct;
2. is the pen mightier than the sword;

and this maxim from 1 Esdras 4.41

Truth is Great, and Mighty above all things (Biblical apocrypha; no doubt indentifying truth with Jehovah, but perhaps a universal truth does exist)

So, given the resources exist (with the limitless power of AI now our ultimate tool) to allow universal above poverty level participation in the economy.
why don't we do it?

Of course reason would require concepts such as sustainable production and healthy consumption in designing an economy (unless one prefers illness and death).

How very ideological!

 

Probably the only thing we might agree on. But... you continue to try and reduce every issue as having but two choices, yours or that of all others.

 

Perhaps because ultimately there are only two choices: life or death.

Man, exceptionally among species, has the potential to manage that choice, on behalf of life, inter alia, by the elimination of war and poverty.

D. Trump. "The time for small thinking is over"
(First Congress speech).

 

"Nonsensical"? Really? Ya think?

The first is responsible for the extreme income inequality that is so damaging on several levels. The second is responsible for the emergence of monopoly capitalism in which a handful of companies collude in the production and marketing of large home appliance, drugs, healthcare, and many other items.

I wouldn't call that "nonsensical". I call it "part and parcel to the collapse of capitalism that we are witnessing."

 

collusion must be very very good then since suddenly everyone can afford:

plasma TV's, LCD TV's, DLP-TV's, iPods, iphones, CD's and CD players, DVDs and DVD players, Blue Ray and Blue Ray players, PCs, desk top PCs, DVRs, color printers, satellite radio, Advantium ovens, HD-TV, Playstations, X-Boxes, X-box live, X-box Konnect, broadband, satellite TV, cell/camera/video phones, digital cameras, OnStar, palm corders, Blackberries, smart phones, home theaters, SUVs, big houses, more houses per capita, TiVo, 3D movies and TV's, built in wine coolers, granite counter tops, $200 sneakers, Go Pro Cameras, GPS navigation, consumer drones, color matched front loader washing machines, internet Facebook, Pandora, LTE-U, run flat tires, matching washer dryer combinations, McMansions, 4K TV, Iphone 6+, burner commercial ranges, Sub Zero refridgerators, Tesla cars, private space flight, more cars than drivers, a $1 billion ring tone industry, a pet industry that just doubled to $34 billion, 10's of millions lining up to buy Apple's I-tablet, Wii, Fit bits, Apple watches, Netflix boxes, jet skis, induction cooking, low profile tires, aluminum/titanium rims, Harley Davidson and Japanese motorcycles. $700 Billion spent Christmas 2010, $10.5 billion movies 2010, 10 million ocean crusies, 44 million taking plane flights over 2012 holiday, $500 billion spent on Christmas 2012, hover boards, Ti Vi Bolt, Tesla cars, cloud storage, 4k Oled TV,
hover boards, Ring Doorbells, semi self-driving cars, Amazon Alexa,

The list goes on and on. I hope that helps you realize you can't just parrot the communist press and expect to make sense? They have other objectives and are merely using you to promote their point of view.

 

Good list! It goes a long way in proving they are getting your money. It's called "marketing." Did we ask for satellite TV costing us $75/month when we had free antenna TV that delivered very good programming? Do we need CD players plus Blue Ray players, plus texting and tweeting on cell phones that cost $450, home theaters, ("run flat tires"??), drones, i-Tablets, iPods, notebook PCs plus desktop PCs? Something for everyone several times over. Is your life better for it? "Sell sell sell!!!" says the corporate marketing exec.

You are really deceived by the ads. You think you have to have whatever they sell to you. And it doesn't make us any better off yet you present it as meaning we're better off. We all know that corporations sell a proliferation of goods of varying colors and sizes with different combinations of "benefits". This reflects the productive capacity of modern industry and its efforts to get your money. The more they produce the more you think you must have, and they get more of your money and you end up with less. And wealth disparity grows.

And none of it has any bearing on the collusion and monopoly of Big Business. And you don't know you've been had.

 

you said capitalism was collapsing through monopoly and high prices that few can afford when the list shows exact opposite is happening.
100 million Americans can afford to carry around smart phone supercomputers toys in their pocket. Marxism killed 120 million. Its totally 100% stupid and deadly. You hitched your wagon to the greatest evil in human history and are totally blind to it.

 

better to let people decide and define their own lives as they see fit than have a few libnazis govt monopolists in Washington do it!!

 

if marketing mattered people would spend all their money on pet rocks and then be starving. Think about it. Marxism has proved itself to the most deadly force in human history.

- - - Updated - - -

if so people would buy pet rocks. Isn't thinking fun???

 

end up with less??

this is less or more????????????????????

: suddenly we had plasma TV's, LCD TV's, DLP-TV's, iPods, iphones, CD's and CD players, DVDs and DVD players, Blue Ray and Blue Ray players, PCs, desk top PCs, DVRs, color printers, satellite radio, Advantium ovens, HD-TV, Playstations, X-Boxes, X-box live, X-box Konnect, broadband, satellite TV, cell/camera/video phones, digital cameras, OnStar, palm corders, Blackberries, smart phones, home theaters, SUVs, big houses, more houses per capita, TiVo, 3D movies and TV's, built in wine coolers, granite counter tops, $200 sneakers, Go Pro Cameras, GPS navigation, consumer drones, color matched front loader washing machines, internet Facebook, Pandora, LTE-U, run flat tires, matching washer dryer combinations, McMansions, 4K TV, Iphone 6+, burner commercial ranges, Sub Zero refridgerators, Tesla cars, private space flight, more cars than drivers, a $1 billion ring tone industry, a pet industry that just doubled to $34 billion, 10's of millions lining up to buy Apple's I-tablet, Wii, Fit bits, Apple watches, Netflix boxes, jet skis, induction cooking, low profile tires, aluminum/titanium rims, Harley Davidson and Japanese motorcycles. $700 Billion spent Christmas 2010, $10.5 billion movies 2010, 10 million ocean crusies, 44 million taking plane flights over 2012 holiday, $500 billion spent on Christmas 2012, hover boards, Ti Vi Bolt, Tesla cars, cloud storage, 4k Oled TV,
hover boards, Ring Doorbells, semi self-driving cars, Amazon Alexa,

The list goes on and on. I hope that helps you realize you can't just parrot the communist press and expect to make sense? They have other objectives and are merely using you to promote their point of view.

 

How simplistic.

If your second is true, simply show the evidence and bring charges as there are monopoly laws on the books.

Unless you can provide proof, you're simply making accusations. Perhaps you should look a little closer at our monetary system.

 

The reality is that each human life occurs as a result of a choice made by others, leaving us only to choose how long we will try and extend it. Death is inevitable.

Again, a more realistic view would be that the application of ones' potential in ways found remunerable by others is the most effective means by which ones life can be extended.

Much of what you claim to be a contradiction of capitalism is the result of collectivism on steroids, which is quite similar to Newton's third law.

 

meaning, leaving the individual only to choose how long the individual will try to extend (life).

Obviously false..

:No man is an island. No one is self-sufficient all the time; everyone relies on others at some stage of their life.

Therefore the 'choosing' is in fact heavily dependent on many variables beyond the control of the individual, including the 'collective' of the world, at any given time.

provided we have:

1. equality of opportunity,
2. remuneration adequate to sustain life,
3. equal regard for each individual's potential, regardless of remuneration.

Watch out for the effects of that third law, as inequality inexorably increases under capitalism.

 

Nope. It shows the condition of a failing economy when we have nearly half the country earning low enough income to qualify them for public assistance and the wealth disparity we have. All the toys are just the means by which this is all created.

 

You probably think you said something important there. I don't know what a "libnazi" might be but I know that there is no kind of government anyone is proposing for the U.S. in which the choice of which electronic gadgets to produce would be dictated or directed by government.

 

You are the one not making any sense. We have all seen how you regularly abandon rational fact-based discussion to delve into irrational, imaginary and contrived propaganda. It's quite sad.

 

You asked for me to identify contradictions in capitalism. I did that. And regarding evidence, ask anyone. We all know well that companies buy out others and grow bigger and do anything else they can to minimize of eliminate competition. Proof is not needed.

 

I wrote multiple paragraph arguments, and you only quote and look at the first few words? Seriously? You know how stupid that is? You seriously didn't know that? LOL What is wrong with some of you? If you can't understand what I'm saying, why don't you ask and I'll elaborate. Are you capable of writing more than a few word response or reading more than 5 words of a response?

 

And everyone can afford everything on that list, eh? BS! I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and consider your OTT defense of capitalism hyperbole shall I? Or do the homeless in your town live in very large, splendidly luxurious cardboard boxes?

Has it occured to you you've lumped the 1%'s spending in there with the other 99%'s yet? I hope that helps you realize you can't just expect to parrot the right wing press and expect to make sense? They have other objectives and just used you like a sock puppet to promote their point of view.

 

100 million of us can afford iphone smart phone supercomputer toys. That tells you the human race is progressing at a faster pace than ever before!! All the great new stuff would not be on the market unless billions of people could afford it!!

 

no idea what that means!!! care to explain in clear English.

 

Capitalism comes with regulations and laws. seriously??? You didn't know that? If the first sentence shows ignorance the rest is built on a foundation of ignorance. Why not rethink and try again?

 

and yet none have succeeded??? 1+1=2 Liberalism is based in ignorance so the Marxist arguments are very very easily defeated.