Current welfare system ruining our economy

Discussion in 'Budget & Taxes' started by RadicalRevolutionary, Feb 18, 2016.

  1. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    Do you have any proof to back up your assertions, or are you blowing smoke up asses?
     
  2. Ndividual

    Ndividual Well-Known Member

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    Not at all. Everyone should pay for the protection we ask our government(s) to provide us.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2017
  3. Maximatic

    Maximatic Well-Known Member

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    This is true. Power was vastly consolidated in the Union by the 17th and 16th. Don't forget, though, that they were ratified by those same states, each of which would be more powerful without them. Movement toward the 17th began in the states about a century before it was written. For whatever reason, incentives in state legislatures are aligned so that they themselves wanted that power consolidated the way it is now. It's similar to the way in which the US congress defers power to the executive branch. Remember when Obama was president and conservatives were complaining about his abuse of executive power and, after discussing among themselves, they would eventually come to the realization that the executive branch had that power because congress had deferred it to them? It's easy for us to sit back and say that should not have happened, but, whether we can identify the reason or not, we have to admit that congress relinquished that power voluntarily just like the states relinquished their power to the general government, just like the EU created and continues to move power to its union. The incentives are what they are, and this is what they have wrought. So, saying that repealing those things would fix the problem is like saying that reversing history would fix the problem. It's true, but it ain't gonna happen.
     
  4. Maximatic

    Maximatic Well-Known Member

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    I ask that all governments not provide me with any protection.
     
  5. Ndividual

    Ndividual Well-Known Member

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    I'm not quite sure how to respond to you, considering that we seem to agree somewhat on the source of our problem.
    While we can't reverse history, we CAN reverse laws which should not have been created, and create a better future, maybe not for ourselves but many of us have children, grandchildren, families and friends. Change is going to happen, should it be for the better or the worse?
     
  6. Ndividual

    Ndividual Well-Known Member

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    While it's pretty cold there Antarctica might be your best choice, but then there is the Western Sahara, or the true anarchists utopia, Somalia if you really want to avoid taxes and all government protection.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2017
  7. Merwen

    Merwen Well-Known Member

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    Just based on my own observations here and there. There is a whole administrative class that is incompetent and good for little except "building public awareness" We get all this PR because in reality most of these PR types have the technical skills to actually implement the things they keep exhorting "the public" to do.

    What our culture needs is more people that can actually implement things, and that know how to do so properly.
     
  8. Moonglow

    Moonglow Well-Known Member

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    I must have missed my calling, since I was a liberal arts major but ended up running my own business....
     
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  9. Maximatic

    Maximatic Well-Known Member

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    The thing is; we don't agree on the source of the problem. The problem is in the mistaken belief that humans can be trusted with the power to write law. Any bad law resulting from that power is just a symptom, a predictable symptom at that. Anyone sobered by Franklin's statement that you quoted a few posts back seems to sense that on some level. You're probably familiar with the question, "who watches the watchmen". But, what's the answer, Ndividual, "we"?
     
  10. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Nice try...but it's all diatribe...
     
  11. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Most people, if not all people, who obtain government or private assistance, never give any thought to taking other people's money. They are doing it to survive, to supplement their lives, with no malice towards others. Surely a small percentage of them scam the system but they still are not motivated by taking other people's money...
     
  12. Maximatic

    Maximatic Well-Known Member

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    I never said anything about them. I said stuff about you and your opinion about what should be done with other people's money.
     
  13. Ndividual

    Ndividual Well-Known Member

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    Good luck in solving what you see as the problem.
     
  14. Maximatic

    Maximatic Well-Known Member

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    Good luck working with those liberals who agree with you that law should be used to accomplish the goals of the politically powerful.
     
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  15. Ndividual

    Ndividual Well-Known Member

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    You need to work on your reading comprehension.
     
  16. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Everything in the US government, all $4 trillion each year, is 'other people's money'! No matter if we're talking about the military, or health care, or welfare...all of it is taxpayer money. There should never be any dialogue about 'other people's money' but instead how to provide public systems which are in the best interest of the USA...
     
  17. Mircea

    Mircea Well-Known Member

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    Basically.....Bureaucracy begets more Bureaucracy.
     
  18. Maximatic

    Maximatic Well-Known Member

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    So, you should never talk about the fact that governments are stealing money, you should only talk about what you want to do with that money. I see.
     
  19. Vegas giants

    Vegas giants Banned

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    You can talk about it if it makes you feel better but that will never ever change
     
  20. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    I guess this statement in my response is not good enough for you; "how to provide public systems which are in the best interest of the USA..."

    What YOU want, or what I want, are meaningless if they are not in the long term best interest of the USA. Personal bias has no place in a discussion when trying to understand what's in the best interest of the USA. What you claim are FACTS are nothing but your personal bias...not interested...
     
  21. Maximatic

    Maximatic Well-Known Member

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    The USA is a government. Your ultimate good is a government. This is judgmental I'm sure, but that's ****ed up. But you probably find that assessment a straw man, and rationalize that what is defined by and as a government is actually the people it rules.
     
  22. OldManOnFire

    OldManOnFire Well-Known Member

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    Actually the USA is a sovereign nation of 320 million Americans who have chosen a form of government they desire to manage the nation. Until the US becomes a dictatorship, we must accept the will of the voters and the performance of our representatives, and have faith in the 3+ branches of government; executive, legislative, judiciary, and the free press. Today we have a politically divided nation so good luck finding much consensus so it is pretty much guaranteed that each government decision will please half the voters and piss off the other half. I personally refuse to talk or think politics because IMO it's a 100% waste of time and energy. When I leave my house in the car I know it's in my best interest to wear a seat belt...no other opinion can change my mind on this because of the facts that exist. I feel the same about discussing government programs...there are always facts! And facts can be used to obtain what's in the best interest of the USA...
     
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  23. Maximatic

    Maximatic Well-Known Member

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    Bullshit.
     
  24. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    No, it is fact that proves your beliefs are false and evil. You already know this, so you have to find some way of not knowing those facts. That is why you dismiss the facts as diatribe, even though you know they are objectively correct.
     
  25. bringiton

    bringiton Well-Known Member

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    No, it's not a matter of trust. We need laws, and humans are the only ones who can write them. It's just like we can't trust humans with the responsibility to raise children, either, but what is the alternative?
    A symptom of what, existing in the real world instead of your perfect fantasy land?
    Yep. Everyone. If you can't do a good job of it yourself, find someone you think can do a better job, and ask them to do it.
     

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