OK Atheists.......prove god doesn't exist

Discussion in 'Religion & Philosophy' started by Daggdag, Mar 18, 2017.

  1. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Because humans cannot adequately describe a creator god...does not mean there are no gods.

    I do not know if any gods exist...and I do not know if no gods exist.

    Neither do you.

    My analogy is spot on.
     
  2. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    If you assert that no gods exist...you bear the burden of proof for that assertion.

    It is that way with anyone who makes an assertion.
     
  3. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    You have just totally screwed yourself by saying that gods are proposed by humans, which is just what atheists have always said. Thank you for finally admittiing the truth. End of argument.
     
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  4. DPMartin

    DPMartin Active Member

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    this maybe some what of a side track, but it might be of some value to keep in mind when proving or disproving God, because in truth only God can prove He is, and He likes it that way for obvious reasons.

    glory and power is proof enough that an entity of substantial control, exists, or exists in the world. This would be true even between nations and sometimes some nations have to prove it. To be more specific what is provable in the minds of the non-believer is the power to destroy them or their lives or their environment or all of the above.

    So, without fear of reprisal many deny the existence of a Creator and Judge. I say Creator and Judge because the Creator and Judge is Creator and Judge of all that is not Himself, but not necessarily every human being’s God. But if the Creator and Judge would show undeniable power and glory then there would be some reconsiderations of the non-believer’s own beliefs.

    In the case of Jesus Christ, Mercy, healing, repentance and the disregard for the accusations of God’s People, is the proof of the Son of God in the world. Though those who follow Jesus see this as God’s Power and Glory, those who live the life of the flesh only, see nothing of value in that same Power and Glory, because it is of no real threat to them their lives or their environment, so it’s not respected as something powerful, or glorious in their own judgement.
     
  5. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    I have mentioned the fact that my guess is that ALL of the gods that have ever been worshiped on planet Earth have been man-made inventions...and I have done that hundreds of times over the years on the Internet. There is nothing new or extraordinary about that.

    But that has no impact on whether or not gods exist.

    Stop patting yourself on the back. There was no victory on your part...except in your imagination.

    It is possible a god exists; it is possible many gods exist; it is possible there are no gods.
     
  6. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No lets get practical with your assertions, you are saying that the burden off proof lies with me in telling someone that their god does not want then to lob peoples heads off.

    And you have no difficulty accepting that.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
  7. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    As I said it your analogy is only valid if your definition of god is a god who has no interest or interactions with humanity. If the god as defined was required to be involved with humanity than there would be evidence.

    And while you may or may not know I do know that either god does not exist or god has no relevance to humanity. Either results in the conclusion that the existance of a god is irrelevant to the human experience.
     
  8. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    NO...I am telling you in no uncertain terms that if you make an assertion that no gods exist...

    ...you bear the total burden of proof for that assertion.

    AND...if you assert that a particular "god" does not want adherents to lop the heads off of other people...YOU BEAR THE BURDEN OF PROOF FOR THAT ASSERTION.

    So be careful making assertions of that kind.
     
  9. CourtJester

    CourtJester Well-Known Member

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    Define creator god please. That seems to be a new qualifier introduced into the discussion.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
  10. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    So you admit the truth - all gods are man-made, and therefore fictional. Damn; I wanted a go at disproving that god of yours.

    You should stop wasting people's time with this nonsense, pretending that there's a god. Shame on you.

    And stop shouting.
     
  11. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My analogy is spot on no matter what.

    I think you would have a hard time showing that you actually KNOW even that. But I'd be willing to listen to your argument and comment on it.

    My guess is you would quickly have to narrow it down a lot more to make it effective...but give it a shot.

    I would suggest you give some thought to changing, "...has no relevance to humanity" to "...has no relevance to humanity that we humans can determine" before you even start.
     
  12. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    It is far from a new one. I have used that "definition" in almost every discussion on this topic.

    IF this thing we humans call "the universe" is a creation...then whatever created it is what I define as a god.
     
  13. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Learn to read. That is not what I wrote.



    Sounds to me as though you'd have a tough time disproving that 1 + 1 = 3.

    I am not pretending there is a god...or that there are gods.

    I have no idea if gods exist or not. And neither do you.

    But I am man enough to acknowledge that I do not know. You want to pretend something else.


    I am not shouting.
     
  14. ecco

    ecco Well-Known Member

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    Now all you need to do is produce evidence that Jesus Christ ever did any of those things.

    Please note, I am not asking for proof - just evidence.

    Please note, the Bible will not be accepted as evidence. Self servicing stories are not evidence.
     
  15. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like you've lost the plot. And you're still shouting.
     
  16. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    There is no plot to lose. I am saying that I do not know if any gods exist in REALITY...and I do not know if there are NO gods in REALITY.

    Neither do you.


    I am not shouting. I have explained on several occasions that I had a minor stroke which has severely impaired my vision...and bolding my text helps me when I am scrolling for replies.

    I'm 80 years old...there is no way to repair it.

    If my need for bolding offends you...disregard my posts.
     
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  17. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    We can be sure that none of the gods worshipped by people today exist. All those gods are artificial, and will go the same way as the Norse, Greek and Roman gods. Sometime in the future we will wonder why we were so stupid as to think they were real.

    I'm sorry for your disability.
     
  18. Dirty Rotten Imbecile

    Dirty Rotten Imbecile Well-Known Member

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    I can think of a few other definitions too.

    Pantheists think of the natural universe as a god.

    There are also Gods such as those in the Greek and Roman myths that are individually responsible for specific natural events like lightning, thunder, typhoons etc. There are also gods for emotions such as love, anger etc

    Some also think of a God as being a personal saviour.

    Can you think of anything else that we know to exist that has such loose definitions?
     
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  19. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    My guess is that all of those gods were (are) creations of humans, Diablo, humans looking to explain some very scary unknowns.

    I can understand why superstitious, fearful, primitive humans thought it wise to invent gods. But why modern humans want to worship any of the current gods, however, is beyond me. The god of the Bible is an abomination. That god is a jealous, arbitrary, vindictive, murderous, petty god...one that is not even likable, let alone an object of love. I'd easily take Zeus or Jupiter over that god.

    That aside though, the question of the true nature of the REALITY of existence still exists. And just as we can see it is ill-advised to suppose a god is the answer...it is just as ill-advised to suppose no gods. And if "ill-advised" seems inappropriate...then I would substitute "an unnecessary guess about the REALITY."

    BOTTOM LINE: We do not know the true nature of the REALITY of existence...and making guesses about what it contains or does not contain...is, as Spock might say, illogical.
     
  20. Frank

    Frank Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Happiness?

    Contentment?

    Open-mindedness?

    Planets?

    Mountains?

    Freedom?
     
  21. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    It's fairly straightforward why many people are still religious - they are brought up that way, indoctrinated from childhood. Others are naive enough to to be persuaded. Eventually it will die out and we can be rational.

    The only way to know the nature of reality is through science - and don't ask me though - my degree was in Maths/Physics - but I became an accountant instead - more money, less tensor calculus.

    ETA: This was a reply to Frank's post.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
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  22. Giftedone

    Giftedone Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Silliness. I saw Thor welding his mighty hammer in a Movie just the other day.

    Ancient Alien Theorists suggest that some of the old stories of God's were inspired by alien visitations to earth.

    The main problem perhaps is in the definition of "God". Since we do not have any clue what might be out there - folks over the millennia have tended to fill in the vacuum with make believe. Over time those stories got bigger "my God is better than your God" - to the point where God could not get any bigger - Omniscient, Eternal, All Knowable and All Powerful !

    This then leads to following absurdity. Imagine this all powerful and wise eternal God - suddenly becoming a xenophobe. A genocidal maniac with the most petty of human emotions and characteristics.

    A God that creates something - and being all knowing knows exactly how that creation will turn out - but, then get's mad at the creation for turning out the way it has. Further, this God then punishes these creations for turning out the way he made them- knowing how they would turn out prior to creating them.

    The irrationality does not end there. This God gives these people "commands" and rules to live by. One of these rules is that children should not be punished for the sins of their parents. This is a great rule that exists to this day in the rule of law. One person is not to be punished for the actions of another.

    Shortly after giving this rule this irrational flip flopping God then commands these people to break this law -telling them to go out and kill children and babies for the sin's of their parents.

    I think you are wrong when you say that we can say for sure that none of the Gods worshiped by people exist. We simply do not know if God's exist.

    I think what we can say for sure is that in general the stories people make up about the Gods are abject nonsense.
     
  23. Diablo

    Diablo Well-Known Member

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    OK, OK. Let's reset. Show us the one true god......
     
  24. RiaRaeb

    RiaRaeb Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    That is an incredible assertion, basically you have a completely amoral existence. Any and all laws or morals can be over ridden by the persecutor saying, "god told me to do it" and you have to prove that this god did not.
     
  25. Woolley

    Woolley Well-Known Member

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    I cannot prove that God does not exist. The burden lies upon those who claim he does exist. The only reason my claim needs a proof is because someone who believes in God made the claim that he does exist. If they simply stop believing in any God, no one would ever feel the need to test them until God or proof of God presented itself to us using standard methods of empirical review. If you still persist, substitute the word "Odin" for God and defend your position thusly. Since I doubt if any God lover would admit that their proof for the existence of God is the same as one for Odin, the question is rhetorical.
     

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