The future of the European Union

Discussion in 'Western Europe' started by LafayetteBis, Apr 4, 2017.

  1. Vlad Ivx

    Vlad Ivx Active Member Past Donor

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    Wise comment. The EU at its origins was a noble idea. But it's been infiltrated overwhelmingly, as of 2017, by Cultural Marxists and the banking cartels. The de facto leaders of the EU don't even live in Europe. One of them is George Soros. There are others, some of whom are unknown and might remain so forever.

    The EU was once about protecting the cultural heritage of Europe, its people's values and way of life. But today we have to admit that it's doing the exact opposite.
     
  2. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    "All of whom"? Which presumes you've spoken to "all of them"?

    You are making the same mistake as many, thinking that a comparative handful of Muslims who belong to ISIS are supported by the entire Muslim nation. ISIS today is estimated to consist of only 15,000 fighters* mostly in Syria and Iraq; and their HQ in Raqqa is about to be captured in the coming months.

    After that happens, ISIS will become like al-Qaeda and likely go underground but will posses no country or part of any country.

    Nothing could be further from the truth than what you say quoted above, and it is only pure ignorance of the Muslim faith that would allow anyone to believe the asininity of what you purport ...

    *See news report here.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2017
  3. AGWisFAKEsillyBABYKILLERS

    AGWisFAKEsillyBABYKILLERS Well-Known Member

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    Do you count your bataclan killers among those 15000 or were those extras?

    If you do then why were they free to kill like they did and not dealt with preemptively?

    So either your count is BS or you are letting terrorists roam the streets.. You pick..
     
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  4. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    No, it doesn't.

    It's just a picture, and I see dozens of them on TV. News-reports love 'em because it hooks people to the news.

    You have to look further for the truth (of a complicated situation) than just what is reported by news-outlets ...
     
  5. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Moving right along ...
     
  6. AGWisFAKEsillyBABYKILLERS

    AGWisFAKEsillyBABYKILLERS Well-Known Member

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    Yes it does because I said across all EU countries and you come back with "Its all EU countries not just France"..
    And it's a video..

    Your sauce is weak..
     
  7. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Useless banter.

    Moving right along ...
     
  8. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    What is Globalism except Nationalism on a larger scale?
     
  9. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    ... which shares a border with Europe. In fact which shares a border with the EU and which the EU is planning to expand into via Turkey.
    War is assured. When, not if.
     
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  10. VietVet

    VietVet Well-Known Member

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    WHAT?
    The Balkans are not, nor ever have been tranquil. They may not be at war now, but it is never far away.
    Russia under Putin was expansion.
    The risk of war is not absent in Europe.
    I think Africa has the most potential for war - followed by N Korea.
     
  11. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Who would?
    What can the EU do about anything Russia does militarily?

    Hmm I'll think I'll call on the most cowardly wimps I can think of to protect me... Oh. No I won't.

    It's a bit hard for us to defend Norway to be quite honest. We tried in WW2 but ultimately were not able to.
    That was back when we were the worlds only superpower of course, now days we should struggle to do even that much.
    But... struggle to do it we would.
    Is Norway in NATO?

    Why would any NATO country look to the EU for mutual defence?
    No USA and no UK, what has the EU got to offer? Just the French.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2017
  12. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The Balkans consist of Romania,Slovenia, Croatia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Albania, and Greece.

    This is their official status as of today (from the EU here):
    So most are members or in the process of becoming members. Why in heaven's name should they want to make trouble with an entity that they are striving to join in order to offer themselves the same economic stability?

    Just what IS your quarrel with the Balkan Countries ... ?
     
  13. Canell

    Canell Well-Known Member

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    As they have received citizenship, they can loose it the same way. What is given can also be taken away.

    But you don't mind the violent "sacred text" of the Muslims, who teaches them to hate, enslave and kill infidels, don't you? Double standard much?
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2017
  14. VietVet

    VietVet Well-Known Member

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    I read history. There is a lot of it in the Balkans. I have no quarrel - they have quarrels with each other.
     
  15. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    Money isn't the prime motivation in life for most people.
    Some things are more important.

    If all they have to stop them from wanting to kill each other is jobs in the UK and Germany.... that's not very much.
    If you killed my baby child and I thought you were likely to kill my last remaining child, what would I care about the EU?
     
  16. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Nope, not too much. Because it doesn't exist in the proportions that you think, and you are perhaps insisting that it does to justify your inbred hatred of anybody who is not a "bible true-believer".

    From here:
    Does the Quran Really Sanction Violence Against ‘Unbelievers’? By Kabir Helminski, this excerpt:
    You are way out of bounds with your statement quoted above. Read the entire article posted to understand the Koran's verses that you misinterpret out of context ....
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2017
  17. Canell

    Canell Well-Known Member

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  18. alexa

    alexa Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Been there

    http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article3575.htm
     
  19. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Well, I have worked there, and I see none of what you think might be happening.

    They are a poor people and need the EU in order to build their economies and thereby attain better lives. But, when you meet them personally, they are quite simple individuals seeking primarily to sustain themselves.

    The one quarrel of any consequence was religious in nature - and I suspect (after all the deaths) both sides walked away with a very good idea of how devastating it was. Nobody "won" that war between the Orthodox and Muslim believers.

    And, aside from a few inveterate hotheads, I know none who want a repeat performance of it ...
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2017
  20. Otern

    Otern Active Member

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    There's so many errors here.

    First of all, the Russian Norwegian relationship has always been good. Even during the cold war. The whole Ukraine debacle somewhat hurt this relationship, as our pro EU government, followed the EU line in sanctions towards them. This hurt the economy in rural northern areas a lot.

    Russia does not have enough nukes for Norway to be a viable target, and we have no targets of strategic importance suitable for nukes. The risky area for Norway is Svalbard, but losing that area would be a far greater loss for the US and Britain, than it would be for us. We'd only lose a coal mine, and some waters that just about every country on the earth has the same rights as us to exploit resources from, because of the Svalbard treaty.

    One of Norway's primary need and desires is national control over natural resources, and that's a LOT more than oil. Oil is going downhill anyway, but we've got a lot more natural resources. We're for example the only country in the world having 100% coverage of energy use through renewable energy. Because of those mountains.

    National control of natural resources is THE most important thing for us, and it's in direct conflict with the four freedoms of the EU, and losing that, would mean we get hurt in the long run.

    Again, you're seeing the whole EU thing from an anglo perspective, disregarding the other cultures and values that actually has a lot to lose by succumbing to EU pressure. Britain doesn't have half as much to lose, since the EU is primarily in line with British values and interests, those guys love the free market, and have never really managed to do the national control over natural resources right. They practically destroyed the fishing grounds they controlled, way before the EU could do so. While Norway kept their fish stocks alive, because we actually can do national control of natural resources, without it turning into a huge inefficient bureaucracy.

    Also, for the oil thing. Yes, it's going to run out. And yes, we'll no longer have the highest GDP per capita, apart from Luxembourg and Monaco. But as long as we do things right, we'll still be as rich, or even richer than Sweden, Denmark, and Finland. We've got cheap energy other than oil, massive thorium reserves if thorium reactors ever become viable, lots of clean energy. But most important of all, a small population that is able to influence its government in the direction we need. We're way more adaptable as a sovereign nation state of five million, than we ever would be as an outpost of the EU.

    The oil here is not spent like a mad gambler, like in the gulf states. None of the revenue is actually used for anything other than investing in other industries. We're handing it out, so people become complacent. The only direct effect of that oil, lies in the jobs in the oil sector, which does have a positive effect. But really, since discovering the oil, our governments have always worked hard to not make Norway solely dependent on that oil, since we know it's going to run out.

    Money is not even the most important thing. Norway was great before the oil. Low crime rate, almost no murders, and less division between the rich and the poor, compared to other countries. I think if we remain our independence, Norway will be a great country to live in, even without the oil, although we will not be able to spend our holidays abroad living like kings four times a year anymore.
     
  21. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    Because yout "think" you are. It's comforting to think as you do.

    In fact, you are as dependent upon trade with the EU as any other country that actually belongs to it.

    You simply do not want to recognize that basic fact. Here are the facts, straight from the horse's mouth - that is, the EU (here):
    The above is the real picture of the EU/Norway relationship. The fact that Norwegians don't particularly care to belong to its most important European trading partner is iconoclastic. You are a highly independent people - you (plural) think you don't need anybody else.

    Yes, you are a country waiting for a "rude awakening". It will come - it's just a matter of time and how much oil is left to trade.

    For the moment, Norway is floating on its "oil cloud" ...
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2017
  22. Baff

    Baff Well-Known Member

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    We'll buy it mate.
    Sell it to us please.

    Pump it or ship it direct to our facilities if you will.

    We sell stuff too, if you are interested.

    Guns, bombs, planes, cars, ships. We've got a limited deal on Scotch Whiskey.
    Beef, mustard, wheat, Horse Raddish. Ale. Apples and cider. Canned pies. Eco windmills. Bridges. Arm chips. Oh yes.
    Music, video games. Come over and visit, accept our hospitality in part payment.

    Right up for it.
    Everybody loves a good Viking here.
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2017
  23. Otern

    Otern Active Member

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    Of course Norway is dependent on trade with other European countries. But that is not to say we're going to STOP all trade with European countries by rejecting the four freedoms. It's like calling all taxation communism. It's still possible to trade with other nations, with tariffs, and limited trade barriers. It's in fact how we did stuff BEFORE the EU.

    Of course I want trade with other nations, but any national policy should come from the population of that nation, not handed down from a supernational entity. If Norwegians want to tear down trade barriers, fine, but the wish should come from within, or it will cause further resentment towards other European states.

    And yes, we're producing a lot of primary products, which is why it's even more important to have national control over natural resources, since this is such an important part of our wealth. Selling off land, dams, and fishing rights to non-national interests means the profits will not come back to the public of Norway.

    Please show me where I have said I don't want to be a trading partner of the rest of Europe. Trade is great, but unregulated trade, the kind the EU is pushing, is disastrous.

    You put way too much faith in the invisible hand of the market. There are some things the market won't fix, and for that, we need democracy. The EU is based solely on the idea of the free market. Democracy and transparency be damned, because the free market will save us all. Like the communists, they care solely about one single idea, and that's total economical liberty, opposed to the communist ideas of total economical equality. Both ideas are awful, because like any narrow ideology, they have huge loopholes where their ideas clash with reality.
     
  24. LafayetteBis

    LafayetteBis Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    False reasoning.

    The EU has as well societal values. Not all in the organization of states is a question of value-given for an expected value-returned.

    Unless, of course, you are a member of a nation of "calculators". And, no, that is not my understanding of Norwegians. Or, at least, the ones I have known ...
     
  25. Otern

    Otern Active Member

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    And their societal values are decided by a commission, not elected by the people, and who doesn't have to answer to the people.

    Basically everything they do, is to promote trade. Even whatever they call their "societal values".

    They're not pro democracy, or the executive branch of the political system would be elected by the people, by proportionate votes. Or even be accountable to the people. But it's not. The EU commission can only be somewhat hampered by the European parliament, but they can never be made to change direction, or policy by them. Any state that keeps its executive branch protected from any public influence is not a democracy. Doesn't matter much then, if there still is the legislative branch where the public is able to vote. (And even then, the voter turnout for EU parliamentary elections is ridiculously low, because people simply don't consider themselves Europeans primarily over their respective nationality). The EU commission even has legislative, and judicial power, which is a laugh in the face of the concept of division of powers.

    So, they're anti racism, and anti discrimination. So is EVERY single western nation. Don't need the EU to promote this, since it's a western value. It's virtue signalling that doesn't matter at all.

    Then the whole environment thing they're flagging. It's also bullshit. If we were to join the EU, and follow EU laws in agriculture, it would be a disaster for the Norwegian ecology. Basically, the smaller more environmentally friendly farms would all go out of business, and we'd just have a bunch of huge farms dependent on soy concentrates grown in what used to be the Brazilian rain forests. And the fish stocks? Where's the Portuguese, Spanish and the British fishing grounds? They're all depleted, due to overfishing, since it made sense economically at the time to deplete them.

    Security? Hell no. The whole Ukraine deal is the prime example. They ran into this issue, thinking like economists, and being very sure the Russians would also think like economists. And together with Russia, they created the Ukrainian civil war. Just plain retarded. And then they'll keep infringing on civil rights of all Europeans in the name of stopping Islamic terrorism, which kills less people than lightning strikes, while at the same time doing nothing to combat the socioeconomical issues turning young disenfranchised men into radicalism of all sorts. All kinds excessive surveillance, gun control, and fighting free speech, all because of a handful of bearded loonies going for some hypothetical virgins.

    Media freedom? Nope. There's no transparency about the inner workings and negotiations going on in the commission. All we get, is the directives, no way to influence it. Sure, an EU member state may have its government propose a commissioner, but once that commissioner is appointed, he's outside of national and public control and accountability. We just get to see the results, not how these directives get created at all.
     
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