Abortion is as unjust as slavery. An American historical perspective.

yeah I'd like to hear different people's experience of how they came about to change from pro life to pro choice, there's gotta be some study we can look up to see if anyone has already done any type of analysis on this hmm

Well it's also good to just hear people's individual experiences about their switch story, so you've seen a common reasonthat used to be pro life change their views to pro choice interesting I wonder what the top reasons are. Anyways what exactly do you mean tired of being lied to, what lies did people say effected their decision?

 

The one that is personal to me was when I realised how difficult it can be NOT to be in a position to have to choose abortion. I have seen too many women too ill not not have to choose - heart rending as it was and it came to me that the only ones who should be making that decision is the woman themselves. I live in a state where abortion is illegal and even though there is a "life and health" clause that sort of covers medical personnel this has yet to be fully tested in court so there can be a hesitation to providing the care needed. And women have died. It is worse in other countries. Most famously was the death of Savita Halappavanar

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar

She did not have to die

 

Yes I think that's something that people from both pro life and pro choice can actually agree on .all of the pro lifers I know would agree with the good point you brought up. Pro lifers agree with you and say abortion should be allowed to save the life of the mother.It's a very sad thing for a mother to be in that situation tragic

But hey cool I found something pro life and pro choice can agree on !

 

I'm not sure what you are driving at with your insistence that gestation can't be stopped...it most certainly can be..by abortion, by miscarriage , by the death of the fetus or woman...

 

If that is what you are "sensing" then I recommend that you don't give up your day job because you could not be further off if you tried.

FTR it would be a complete and utter waste of emotional energy to be "angry" at something that does not exist.

Why the deflection?

Why can't you address those odious orders of your god to murder innocents?

Since you believe the bible to be "word of god" then he must have given those orders, right?

The onus is entirely on you to explain your hypocritical demands that women must refrain from what your god obviously condones since he ordered it to happen on multiple occasions.

 

That response makes no sense whatsoever!

You have contradicted yourself and now you need to explain how a woman is both "corrupted by power" and a "victim" at the same time.

 

Since you are now invoking the Law of the Land and the Constitution you are wrong on BOTH counts.

Abortion was an individual right protected by the BoR since it was legal at the time this nation was founded.

Secondly a fetus has no rights whatsoever under the Law of the Land since it is NOT a naturally born person.

 

The problem becomes what to do when framing legislation. Take it from me that once you have a condition in the legislation allowing for "health and welfare" it basically inactivated legislation

 

So, death stops gestation. If not by death is there another way?

 

"To thine own self be true" means don't deceive yourself by lying to yourself.

That has nothing whatsoever to do with abortion.

 

Where does the Bill of Rights protect the death of any individual, and the babe is an individual.

http://www.lifenews.com/2012/07/05/abortion-was-illegal-in-all-13-american-colonies-in-1776/

Uh, where is that written int eh "Law of the Land"?

 

That you obviously don't care what happens to the newborn one second after the pregnancy has completed is coming across loud and clear.

Unwanted children are a burden on society. They don't do well in school and disrupt other students. Many of them end up using drugs and/or committing crimes when they reach adulthood.

Until you are prepared to address the problem of unwanted children your position is nothing more than an attempt to enslave pregnant women against their will to suit your own unconstitutional theist agenda.

 

The 9th Amendment protected unenumerated individual rights and since abortion was legal at that time it was obviously covered under that amendment.

The 14th Amendment stipulates that individual rights apply to NATURALLY BORN persons. A fetus has not been naturally born and therefore does not have any rights.

The woman, on the other hand, does have individual rights and her 4th Amendment right to privacy means that no one can tell her what to do with her own body without violating her rights.

 

Actually yes = look up "disappearing twin"

Every so often gestation is stopped and at early stages can be resorbed

 

Abortions=wealth and prosperity? What of the moral costs, gain worldly things but lose our humanity, souls in the process. There is no doubt that access to life saving procedures benefits the sick, perhaps that focus would reduce preventable deaths rather than just targeting the unborn children for termination as a population mechanism.

 

So you are an avid supporter of Obamacare providing free contraceptives as a means to prevent abortions, right?

 

You are right that society must take responsibility when those who should won't, but your solution in killing the unborn is not taking responsibility, it just ends the life of the unborn. There are organizations and people who help expectant mothers and families when they need or want help. There are organizations and people who support and promote adoption. I've been in the homes of people wanting to adopt or foster. There is help and assistance available.

As I have shared with you previously and will again, I am not a theologian. I appreciate your acceptance of and desire to understand the historical accountings recorded in the Bible. I do know that context is very important when trying to understand historical events and the historical players mindset, lacking that specific insight on your quoted passages I would urge you to look to a local theologian/minister for the answer to your Biblical history questions. The Bible, as you've cited, is a record, a history of Mankind's waxing and waning relationship with the Creator, do you see the historical biblical teachings of Jesus Christ as more in line with your life standard expectations? I don't typically call folks out on ignoring my questions but hope you'll answer the "Jesus Christ teachings" question this time.

Can we choose to do something that would be deemed unhealthy or dangerous and then fall prey to its virulent consequences? Of course. Don't you have sympathy or maybe empathy for those ensnared by circumstances they either didn't fully understand, anticipate or disregarded? Thus the "power" to place ourselves in the circumstance resulting in a "victim" of circumstance of our own choosing.

There are rights that predate our Constitution. You can say abortion is a Constitutional right and always has been; still there must have been anti-abortion laws on the books that were considered in the RvsW decision. So maybe it wasn't always legal or a right? Slavery was legal and slaves must have been seen as less than human as they were seen as property, not unlike the American unborn since 1973. Ironic what history reveals and repeats.

Amen, to thine ownself be true.

Again Slavery was legal and I think abortions were illegal (if it wasn't why RvsW Dec.) in America's legal past. Slavery is now illegal and abortion is legal. Interesting how understanding/history/man's relationship with his own circumstance and with his Creator waxes and wanes.

 

No, I am not an advocate for Obamacare. Not appreciative of much the previous presidential administration was about.

 

Ya, birth stops gestation.........are you confused?

 

Is it truly moral to allow children to stave? What is ethically more correct 7 children dying of starvation or 3 children surviving and prospering? I am talking about women in the most abject poverty - women with little choice and yea it would be WONDERFUL to give them health care and keep more people alive but that is not a choice

 

Yes, it is, it's very responsible to not bring into the world a kid you either don't want or can't afford. YOU do not rule on what is or isn't "responsible" for anyone but yourself.

Obviously not enough Anti-Choicers willing to adopt unwanted children or there wouldn't be any in the system.


You've been in homes of people wanting to adopt or foster? So? Would that be YOUR home by any chance ????

The bible is some people's version of history, NOT everyone's and has no place in a discussion on abortion until a religious person brings it in....

Sure, have sympathy, help them out but to force your beliefs on them is repugnant. And your insistence that women are stupid and , without your help, don't fully understand, anticipate or disregard" is also repugnant and sexist...

Hogwash.

It was illegal due to so many women dying from botched abortions...also doctors wanted it made illegal for midwives to perform abortions so doctors could collect the money....that's all

To compare the horror of what actual people (slaves) went through to the painless quick death of a clump of cells is appalling and shows NO respect for those who were slaves...

and bloods thicker than water and ya can't get blood from a turnip....why not use all the meaningless illogical claptrap.

Keep your "creator" to yourself and don't impose your religious beliefs on others....how's THAT for an old saying?

 

YOUR "morals" are not everyone's...

To say that women have lost their humanity because they had an abortion is ignorant.

 

The question is if you support laws against abortion.

 

Name another natural way of reproduction.

 

Why?

Why "natural"?

What has that got to do with abortion?