Beslan school siege: Russia 'failed to prevent' massacre

In these two incidents, Russia had to face some terrorists on a whole other level than whatever goes on in the west. Really, there's nothing like these groups operating in western Europe, or the US, which is why some people here tend to think of the Russians as reckless in their handling of the situation.

They were armed with all kinds of weapons, had the theater filled with bombs, with their fingers on the triggers, and were numerous, well trained, with no regard of their own, or other's lives.

What failed in the Moscow Theater situation, was their medical response, and quick treatment of people, not the breaching and fighting of the terrorists. Going more softly at them, would probably lead to them triggering the bombs, and kill everyone in that theater. Using gas was probably the only viable option.

Beslan was a clusterfuck. But they did manage to save most of the hostages. Put France, Germany, or the US in the same situation, and I doubt they'd do much better. Maybe they'd get lucky, and it'd go better, or maybe it'd go worse.

 

It is a pleasure to see somebody reasonable and presenting some sober arguments.

 

The closest thing to these two incidents western Europe has experienced, was the Munich massacre. And even that was on a much lower scale. Just 5 terrorists, and 11 hostages. It still ended with all hostages and one police officer dead. Yhis lead to Germany improving their anti terror doctrine.

Another incident, somewhat resembling, was the 1980 iranian embassy incident in London. This time 6 terrorists, and 26 hostages. This went a lot better, only two dead hostages. But still, a far better situation for the counter terrorist forces.

In Beslan, the Russian security forces had to face 32 even better armed, and comparably well trained terrorists. With the entire school covered in bombs. And with 1100 hostages mashed up in all of this. They had no way of knowing the true number of hostages, and even less of a sure way to know the numbers of terrorists.

Did the Russian security forces mess up at some point? Maybe. Probably. But this is such an awful situation in the first place, so there's hard to compare with any other country. Most likely, we'd all mess up. These are not bank robbers, taking hostages to get away. They're terrorists, taking hostages to gain political goals, and no country can ever give in to their demands, which means there will always be bloodshed.

 

"was largely a success, saving around 70% of hostages" why the Beslans mothers/ EU professionals disagree with you and putin?

 

EU professionals? The European court of human rights has nothing to do with the EU. Russia is a part of this too.

And of course anyone who's lost someone will have criticism. And it's probably well founded criticism too.

But this "haha, Russia is so bad, we'd totally manage this situation better" attitude I see here is a load of bullshit. Waco siege ring any bell? It was treated as a hostage situation, and was comparably just as chaotic as Beslan. It went horribly wrong too, even though they didn't have to deal with well trained terrorists.

 

Who cares for 'decisions' of this so-called court?

 

How easy it is with hindsight to sit in (literally) judgement when all the facts aren't known by those making it. Nothing to see here except it's just another 'western' stick to beat the Russians with.

 

i dont see any haha, here. what i and local see its

Ulus of juchi, the next step is the Hague.

 

Ulus of Jochi was first Mongol when son of Ghenghis, Jochi was the ruler. Later Jochi died when Cengiz Han was still alive, therefore he decided Jochi's son Batu Han the ruler of his inherited lands later became known as the state of Golden Horde (Altin Ordu). Ordu means Army in Turkish and Batu's state called Golden Army because he was the commander in chief of the army and his throne was made with "gold". They have become part of Turkish Kipchaks (Ulus=Nation, Ulusal=National, Ulusalci=Nationalist in Turkish). So are you referring Russia (Muscovy) is continuation of Kipchak Turks (known as blonde and blue eyed Turks) and their Golden Horde (Altin Ordu)? Is your hatred toward Russia is because you suppose them they are Turkic/Mongol and because my ancestors forced Lithuania to pay tribute in exchange for their lives?

 

term
The golden horde was created only in 18c . The academic term is ulus of juchi. Yes much like today ulus of juchi was a multi racial empire. You are wrong, GDL has never paid to Mongols tributes . No evidence , what we Know in 15 centuries GDL was protector of Sarai legitim government and the main sponsor of Gurey's Crimian project, which was a mistake . By the way your pan - turkism is product of XX c. And it has nothing to do with our case

 

Yeh. And we failed to prevent 911. Where is the news?

 

Litwo, why do you always try to be funny?

1) Golden Horde = Altin Ordu Devleti, also called Ulus of Jochi or KIPCHAK Khanate (Kipcak Hanligi in Turkish) was founded in 1200s (13th century). You're 500 years short there dude.
2) I DID NOT SAY anything about GDL (Grand Duchy of Lithuania) paying tributes to Mongols. I said Lithuania had to pay KIPCHAKS/Cumans (Turks) tribute when Altin Ordu State made them to! Even Prince Fedor of Kiev had to pay.
3) Altin Ordu cannot be considered as "multi-racial" because there were only two dominant nations: Mongols and Turks (mostly Kipchaks/Cumans). After Batu Han, Turkish tribes made the state a full Turkish one. By the way, Mongols and Turks are both the descendants of "Xionghu", both are speaking an Altaic language and both have "Ergenekon legend" in their cultures. These make us a little bit of cousins. The difference is that they were less numbered and less developed among other nomadic tribes of the central Asia, especially when Proto-Turks emerged. Attila for example was from Xionghu and Turkic. His father, uncles and grandfather were all speaking ancient Turkish. He got all central Asian tribes under his rule regardless of them being Mongols or Turks, yet all of his administrative units and generals were Turks.
4) I am a Kuman Turk, just like ATATURK and we have tens of millions of Kumans living in Turkiye today. Many entered Anatolia from the Caucuses. A big arm of Kumans defeated "Pecheneks" and spread all over the Balkans. They even sieged Istanbul way before Ottoman Turks did in 1453. So there's no Pan-Turkism, only facts of my true ancestors
5) Altin Ordu (Ulus of Jochi) was already divided into little khanates before Muscovy evolved into Russian Tsardom. Actually that's what gave birth to the Tsardom.

Golden Horde flag:

 

LOL and Stalingrad in the same sentence is truly retarded.

 

If you understood the USSR and Nazi Germany you would understand that Stalinhrad was the turning where two equal evils met and the world would have been better off if both were destroyed.

 

Sho? What ?

 

You are predictable. By the way, I said not to bother answering. Continue waving your tongues, folks.

 

Сompared to 3000 people killed in 9/11 because of the failure of CIA and FBI to prevent this, the operation in Beslan is a success of course.

 

yeah... You say nothing about third equal evil. Behind ocean.

 

what do you think about Beslan mothers? on which side are you, on the BM or Kremlin kleptocracy in this conflict?
"Putler Beslan´s butcher"




and
"Mother Beslan against Putler"

 

They are unhappiness women that did many strange things. For example they payed money to Grobovoy (you know that crook?) for reviving their children.

I am on my own side. But you are a puppet in someone else game. Think about this.

 

The Russians, although strong and clumsy and somewhat inept, did use proper force when dealing with the radical Islamics who killed so many at the school. ALL of the terrorists were killed.

This should always be the treatment for any terrorist or enemy combatant that does not follow the Geneva Convention and wear a uniform.

Kill them all on the spot unless they can be interrogated for information before their execution.

 

I agree with you that this situation could have ended up much worse than it did, ThirdTerm.

As we all know, hindsight is 20/20. It's all too easy to second guess and criticize from this vantage point, and that goes for the ECHR, too.

 

And tor USA too??? Oh my God...

 

We signed the Geneva Convention. Our troops and even most of the fighters we help in Syria and Iraq wear uniforms.

The Taliban, ISIS, al Queada and all the other riff raff terrorists SHOULD always be killed for being such wicked ***holes who do not to follow the rules of war. Shame on them!

 

And opened Guantanamo plus many secret prisons over the world...