Abortion is as unjust as slavery. An American historical perspective.

Of course two cells are alike if they have the same DNA and this DNA is human ? When the zygote splits it creates two "daughter cells" which are clones of the parent. What is your point here ?

What are you talking about ? The question posed had nothing to do with whether or not the cell is animal, plant or human.

The question is this - if not one cell in human body (A) exists - does human (A) exist ? In this case Human A is the human in the DNA blueprint.

I agree that the cells are the builders (and state this in my post). It is not a false comparison in the case of the zygote. The zygote/ the builder is separate from the structure being created. The zygote will never be a cell that is part of the human structure being created.

Last - you missed a few questions, cherry picked - and gave no defense to your claim that the zygote is a living human.

Let me clarify. What is the significant difference between the zygote (single cell at conception) and other human cells such that the zygote should qualify as "a human" while other cells - having the same DNA - do not.

 

Yes, slave owners ALSO forced their slave women to give birth....just like Anti-Choicers wish to do.

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Go ahead....

The old insane "women are so lucky that they have some rights . They're so lucky that they shouldn't mind a little erosion of those rights"

What absolute crap!

FORCING someone to do something against their will is a form of slavery.

Why? Just because you're losing the argument?

Ya, those "facty" things are so inconvenient....

Yes, making abortion illegal is making women into "things" , not really citizens with the rights OTHERS HAVE...as slaves were viewed.[/QUOTE]

 

You better fix your post 553 before I report it....that's not what I wrote.

 

[/QUOTE]

We have stated our views and it's clear that we have different views of morality and value in a developing fetus. Right for that innocent defenseless fetus comes before a women's right to choose to kill it, we do not agree at all so it is what it is so accept that no matter what I say there will always be people that disagree with me and consider my views to be incorrect. I'm not going to change an opinion about whether or not a baby should be allowed to be killed. Life trumps any argument you have made in my view.
you did not even address the long list I gave to you of how factually slaves are treated differently than a pregnant women. The use of force is how you determine slavery , laws use force! That's how it works and I'm not even arguing that abortion made illegal is a force on women. That's what laws do null empty point in my stance and beliefs on abortion. It makes sense to you but we have an entirely different belief system about this so you shouldn't be surprised that this doesn't change my opinion or make you correct in my view.

There are people that want to rob and kill others but the use of force through the law makes these actions illegal.if you really are going to stick with that then we are all slaves .

 

I am not sure what you want me to respond to as your post does not much relate to mine.

In terms of your post I agree that forced pregnancy makes slaves of women. That is a no brainer. Forcing a person to do something with their own body against their will is a form of slavery IMO.

I also disagree with your inferred claim that the entity at all stages of pregnancy (zygote, embryo, fetus) is a person/ living human "innocent baby" as you have provided no support for this claim or qualified which stage of pregnancy you are referring to. This commits the "assumed premise" fallacy.

 

So get a clue, there will always be people who disagree with you because they're right

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How does "life" trump my view?? WTF?

You never addressed the fact that forcing women to give birth is EXACTLY what slave owners did.

What is that last thing you said? A sentence? What language is it in?

In a way we are all slaves but you want women to have even more restrictions than the fetus or anyone else...at least we "slaves" should be equal....what you are proposing is the attitude of the slave owner..

 

yes in history slaves were forced to give birth. I don't disagree with forcing a pregnant woman to give birth . That's what abortion made illegal would do. You think that if a women doesn't have legal right to kill the fetus that makes her a slave. I do not agree. I don't think this force is a bad thing I see it as a good thing that would allow the baby to live.saying that slaves had this force therefor it makes women in 2017 a slave too is not correct in my opinion.

I acknowledge that there are others that don't think the force of abortion laws is right.There are people that identify as pro life that agree with my views and then there are people on pro choice that disagree. I acknowledge that women will go through added hardships that come with carrying a child. The fact that being pregnant is difficult and can have negative affects on life still doesn't make it okay to kill the baby.

I hear that you have a different view about this but the existence of people with opposing views then my own doesn't matter to me .this is my opinion and I am fully confident in my reasons. I'm not going to change my stance abortion is the morally wrong decision and I will never support the killing of babies. This is why a debate like this never gets anywhere it's because your stance is based on protection of the women's rights as being the deciding factor in your views. My View is based on my belief that the developing child has a right to life despite the negative effects on the women

I don't know how I can be anymore clear on this for ya . We disagree accept it and move on there's no point in further debate when it is clear that neither person is going to change their view.

 

nI my opinion is it's silly to form your opinion based on emotion and hyperbole rather than facts, logic, law and science....( the real world)

 

Thanks for admitting you don't care about women and that you see us as lessers.

 

Post 553 reported for altering my post.....

 

Again I disagree with your opinion I don't think my opinion is silly or based just on emotion or hyperbole. Facts logic law science and the real world are all factors that I have formed my opinion with, You can present your disagreements with my views as facts over and over as you have . This does not make them true.

I care about human beings. I care about men I care about women. If a man was the one that carried the child and not the women my stance on abortion would be exactly the same.

just because you believe I don't care about women and see them as lessers does not make it reality. I don't believe that placing a child's right to live over a women's right to choose to kill it makes me anti women. You can say it is all you want and I still do not think that you are correct. you didn't even get my gender right lmao I am a woman.

 

I don't give a diddly what your gender is....it's totally irrelevant.

And NO, you have NOT shown where you have used facts, science, law to form your opinion.....in fact you keep referring to a fetus as a "child", no science evident there.

 

Please see post 561.

 

Bottom, neither side of the abortion issue can be compared to slavery. They are different issues altogether. While I am personally against it, my beliefs should never be forced onto others.

Besides, those who would support anti-abortion laws can never address the issues that come with their position.

 

This is one of the worst arguments pro choicers make in my opinion.pro lifers laugh at people that try to say it's not a baby. When a women gives birth a baby is born the end.you can choose whatever term you'd like to call it fetus tissue whatever. Youre not going to convince people on the pro life side and many others on the pro choice as well that pregnancy doesn't make babies.

I don't even bother to get any further than that with pro choicers that actually think they can dispute the facts of how a baby is made .you guys can copy paste all the definitions you want.go nuts examine viability brain function all that's crap it just makes you look like an absolute idiot when you try to say it's not a baby . Why would I have a full blown debate on such nonsense. I don't need to explain to people that believe the earth is flat that they are wrong they do a fine job of it themselves,

You literally are the worst advocate for the pro choice movement I have met in awhile. i have tried to keep it civil and have an open honest discussion with you this whole time. I am here to talk about my views with others and listen to views different than my own.When we can't find any common ground it's time to move on and end the discussion. I have over and over acknowledged that my views aren't held by everyone why can't you do this as well. Agree to disagree and move on to talk to another person! You attack my character and state your opinions as facts, have you ever seen an actual debate on abortion?? You have no idea how to talk about it with someone that disagrees with you.i don't know if you can even acknowledge that there is a large group of people called the pro life movement that absolutely disagree with you. You lose all credibility when you present all your opinions as facts and fail to acknowledge any view as even a alternate opinion to yours .

i haven't made character judgements on you because you are pro choice I have acknowledged that you have an opinion based on your beliefs.why can't you do the same to people that have pro life beliefs? Agree to disagree. We have entirely opposite stance on the morality of abortion. If what you say is true to you and you aren't willing to change it I accept that , every time I have said we disagree you have tried to close the discussion with accusations about me that are not true .then I have to re open this just to state that I'm not actually whatever insult you judge me to be.

Our beliefs are different. The end. Accept that I will not change my views as I did for you.

This nasty attacking I am higher than all that disagree thing does not get you anywhere. my opinion on abortion has not been changed by anything you have said. perhaps your reasoning behind the beliefs you have on abortion will make sense to another person but people like myself that are firmly on the pro life side aren't going to be effected by the slavery, women hater, it's not really A baby arguments.

No serious pro lifer agrees with those opinions at all. If you want to change minds with those arguments .. good luck buddy but honestly it's a waste of time because at the end of the day I heard your reasons and they haven't changed mine .

I wouldn't even attempt to change the mind of someone on the pro choice side that holds those opinions you tried to grind me down with. There is no way you and I will ever agree if you don't see abortion as the killing of a child .

you can't debate someone that holds this belief that is entirely opposite from you . We have no common ground. Theres nothing quality to be gained if you have no interest in opposite views and just want a platform to present your opinions as facts go join a protest not a discussion board.

 

...and when aborts she aborts a fetus...

you can argue with science and fear and loathe science but that won't change it

Another "misrepresentation"...I never said pregnancy didn't EVENTUALLY make a baby.


YOU have NO idea what other Anti-Choicers think so don't try to speak for them and what they will or won't be convinced of...

ANOTHER " MISREPRESENTATION" !!!....NO one has disputed how babies are made...you're ranting...

Go ahead! Call it a baby, call it a bun in the oven and hope for pastry but legally and scientifically it's a fetus and can be aborted.

Your opinion doesn't count, the law counts and thankfully it protects women from people like you who want to take their rights away.

So move on and end the discussion, you haven't really added much.

Oh no, you're upset because I used science and law and facty things to form my opinion....and you didn't.

I NEVER mentioned the "morality" of abortion...

IF you're feeling inferior it's all on you. Only you can allow yourself to feel inferior, quit blaming it on somone else.

You cannot speak for all Anti-Choicers....don't you think they can speak for themselves or are you trying to bolster your opinions by calling for backup???

Well, too bad for you this is a discussion board not an Agreement board

If you can't take facts and disagreement then maybe this isn't the place for you.

 

I never said you aren't female. Funny, though, how you chose to show your gender AFTER I commented about you hating women. And yes, anyone wanting to force women to gestate and give birth against their will hates them. Women *can* hate women, ya know.

 

I don't think I'm inferior At all. and there's no need for anyone else to back up my opinions. It's not like I am saying anything new that hasn't been said.I've said everything I needed to say to you at this point and you can have the last insult if that makes ya happy. You can think that science shows that abortions are moral. This isn't something that I am going to ever agree with you on.As to the other points you already know I disagree with every belief you have brought up about abortion , it's a broken record for me to keep on letting you know this. I have stated and explained my position and so have you. I'm not willing to repeat myself anymore you can re read my posts that's my position have a nice day

 

If you would like to believe that people with pro life views hate women go ahead make that judgement.i don't have interest in proving to you that pro life movement does not hate women if that's literally the first thing you say to me. Your opinions about me are already formed no point in having a conversation about our different views

 

O' GiftedOne, the grand legalist of our thread!

Your chosen comparison of sperm, feces, heart cell etc. are simply that, shall be that and nothing more. But that little being developing within mother's womb is so much more than your sperm, feces and heart, skin, liver, intestine cell etc. Witness a new creation and a uniquely grand master piece.

I do not have the education to witness to the emperor's new clothes but I have a sense for truth, and the truth is that pre born humans, that unborn baby (that you see as tissue property) is developing along his or her natural, ordained timeline as a distinctly separate being with intact (though presently unrecognized by the SCOTUS) natural rights.

Whoa there fella, we are in agreement, not yet a citizen of these United States! Now we are famous for allowing non-citizens in our land to enjoy pre-existing rights, well OK, except for maybe American slaves during a specific historical timeframe. The American slave of yesteryear treated not unlike the unborn are treated today, as their master's property.

 

I agree with you limited assessment but thought I share a little as well

Found this (below on a .gov website); I highlighted it for you

"The Declaration of Independence expresses the ideals on which the United States was founded and the reasons for separation from Great Britain." https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs

 

Nature...witness and guide. Many wondrous teachings and truth.

 

Yeah....and flush them fetuses. Lol

 

Obama would not support (state or federal) legislation requiring the rendering of care to a surviving baby injured by abortion. Kermit was only completing the mission he was on. No Sister Fox, Kermit's heart and act is surely inline with our former President's legislative abortion history and goals.

 

Doof, it's Dix here on the Life side of the issue. I am relieved to know I don't trouble you.

When one adopts I hope it is for the love of the child and not to claim a prop in a political act.

The Law does not protect crime victims...it holds accountable only those convicted of violating it. You are correct that laws,for the most part, won't stop those determined to violate it. Still, our laws define what is acceptable behavior and our societal values. It gives an identity to a people and a time.