March for science 2017

Discussion in 'Science' started by SuperSymmetry, Apr 19, 2017.

  1. SuperSymmetry

    SuperSymmetry Member

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    https://www.marchforscience.com/

    There's going to be a nationwide march this Saturday to protest defunding science and the current administration's science denialism. I'm going to be at the march in my city along with several other fellow graduate students from my department.
     
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  2. Chrome

    Chrome Active Member

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    oh ****, there's actually one going on in my area
     
  3. SuperSymmetry

    SuperSymmetry Member

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    You know what must be done, my apprentice.
     
  4. Chrome

    Chrome Active Member

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    Yes master
    [​IMG]
     
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  5. NullSpot the Destroyter

    NullSpot the Destroyter Well-Known Member

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    "Science denialism"? You mean that Trump denies science or just disagrees with some of your (and the Left's) pet theories?
     
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  6. SuperSymmetry

    SuperSymmetry Member

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    The former.
     
  7. NullSpot the Destroyter

    NullSpot the Destroyter Well-Known Member

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    Oh. So you guys aren't serious.
     
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  8. SuperSymmetry

    SuperSymmetry Member

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    We're serious because there's a lot to protest. Trump's global warming denialism, DeVos' creationism, and Bannon's race realism are all actively undermining actual science.
     
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  9. NullSpot the Destroyter

    NullSpot the Destroyter Well-Known Member

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    Trump doesn't think AGW is a threat. I agree with his reasoning.

    As for creationism, did you vote for Obama? Did you do so in spite of the fact that he went to a church that preaches there's an invisible guy in the sky controlling our lives and that a guy who was crucified came back from the dead to walk amongst us?

    "Race realism"? What nonsense is that?

    I thought you supported science!
     
  10. SuperSymmetry

    SuperSymmetry Member

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    I didn't, but that has nothing to do with anything. I'm a biologist. I dislike creationism because it's wrong.

    Race realism is the belief that races exist as an objective biological category. It doesn't sound that bad on the surface but the actual theory behind it is extremely shaky and not well supported by the relevant data.
     
  11. NullSpot the Destroyter

    NullSpot the Destroyter Well-Known Member

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    But does it bother you that Obama believes in such anti-science stuff as god and such? Since you're basing your criticism of DeVos for essentially the same fault, you must have been outraged for eight years.

    So I googled "Bannon race realism" and got a hit-piece by ThinkProgress in which they claim that Bannon said he thinks some races are superior to others.

    And on that basis, even if true, you claim that Trump is anti-science?

    You're a biologist, so I'm worried about the state of current science given your obvious confusion.
     
  12. SuperSymmetry

    SuperSymmetry Member

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    I'm not concerned with people's religious beliefs as long as they don't influence policy. DeVos poses that threat.

    I said that his administration was, not just him. There's also the issue of the proposed funding cuts to scientific research.

    You don't have to be condescending...
     
  13. NullSpot the Destroyter

    NullSpot the Destroyter Well-Known Member

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    So, DeVos is religious, and Obama is religious, but only DeVos is a threat because she believes in "critical thinking"? I assume that's the quote you're so concerned about.

    Yet, "the latest global snapshot of student performance shows declining math scores in the U.S. and stagnant performance in science and reading." That was in 2016 when Obama, the religious guy, was president, so he presided of continually falling scores and you weren't concerned?

    He's cutting some research and boosting other science programs (NASA, for example). Or isn't NASA science anymore?

    So if he cuts science you like, that makes him anti-science?

    Sorry, but I'm puzzled. You're a scientist and yet you seem to be basing your assertion that Trump's administration is anti-science on emotions and political leanings.
     
  14. SuperSymmetry

    SuperSymmetry Member

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    It's not. The reason I'm concerned about her is her use of creationist and fundamentalist Christian rhetoric, her donations to creationist organizations, and her other ties to creationist ideologues.

    Student performance in the US has been steadily declining for a long time now. There's nothing special about Obama's presidency in this regard. I don't even know why you're so hung up over him.

    A broken clock is right twice a day. What he did was fine, but it wasn't necessary to cut funding from other science programs as well.
     
  15. NullSpot the Destroyter

    NullSpot the Destroyter Well-Known Member

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    You'll have to provide examples, because nothing I've read about her beliefs justifies such concern. And, frankly, it's hypocritical to obsess over her irrational beliefs when Obama had control of the nuclear button, and yet had equally silly notions.

    I'm mentioning him because l assume you felt much more comfortable with the Obama presidency than Trump's. As such, it seems fair to point out how hypocritical your outrage at Trump's "anti-science" attitude is based on criteria that didn't bother you when a guy you liked was in charge.

    Elections have consequences. Just because you don't like what Trump is doing, doesn't mean he's anti-science.
     
  16. VietVet

    VietVet Well-Known Member

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    It isn't just science that the so-called president denies, he denies reality.
    He asserts easily proven falsehoods - like his inaugural crowd was the biggest EVAH - PERIOD
    He had the Biggest Electoral College Victory.
    A wall on the Mexican border will solve illegal immigration, whet the reality is most illegal immigrants come by plane and overstay visas...
    Unemployment statistics are not to be believed, until they are to be believed...

    Science is just one of the reality-based things, like math, that he denies.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
  17. NullSpot the Destroyter

    NullSpot the Destroyter Well-Known Member

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    So you disagree with Trump and think that justifies calling him anti-science?

    Obama left office with at least 100 broken promises to his discredit. Meanwhile Trump is busy keeping his promises.

    Based on Obama's track record I'd say that the Left in this country are the ones denying reality. (Honestly, the man breaks over 100 promises and yet the Left voted him in AGAIN?! Chortle.)
     
  18. VietVet

    VietVet Well-Known Member

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    Ah yes, the old Rove rule:
    "Accuse your opponent of your own worst fault".
     
  19. NullSpot the Destroyter

    NullSpot the Destroyter Well-Known Member

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    I dislike a liar. If you call that a disagreement, fine.

    So you hate politicians. Ok.

    I am sure your list of 100 includes minor crap, but even so, that's 8 year - the current so-called president has way more lies in under 100 days!


    I didn't even mention Obama's many lies. But apparently you hate politicians who lie, but not enough to criticize Leftists pols who break promises.

    I don't like hypocrites who discover morality after they have spent eight years ignoring it.
     
  20. SuperSymmetry

    SuperSymmetry Member

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    You're trying to make parallels where there are none. If you really want to equivocate the Trump administration's stance on science with that of the previous administration, you're going to need to appeal to more than just the shared label the two presidents use to describe their religious views (I say label because Christians aren't a monolithic entity and a diversity of ideologies and beliefs can be reconciled with Christianity).

    The two administrations had many contrasts in regards to science. At no point did Obama's administration promote global warming denialism, creationism, or race realism. The current administration has threatened the EPA, published "alternative facts" in contrast with established scientific findings, proposed defunding public scientific research, expressed support for "teaching the controversy" in regards to creationism and evolution in classrooms, and may more. At best, it's dishonest to say that the two administrations are exactly the same.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
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  21. NullSpot the Destroyter

    NullSpot the Destroyter Well-Known Member

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    They’re the same when you talk about being concerned by their irrational beliefs. If the Obama administration didn’t keep you up at night, in spite of Obama’s Christian views, then it’s hypocritical to be worried about same from DeVos.

    Ahem. When someone believes that there’s an invisible SUPERBEING all around us who controls our lives, I think that’s pretty odd. I happen to be talking about Obama and DeVos.

    Yes, Obama credulously bought into the social justice scam that is AGW alarmism:

    “No matter if the science of global warming is all phony… climate change provides the greatest opportunity to bring about justice and equality in the world.” - Christine Stewart, former Canadian Minister of the Environment”​

    As for creationism, I’m still waiting for you to substantiate your claims that it’s an issue with the Trump administration. And that “race realism” claim is a nothing burger too, given that you haven’t posted a shred of evidence to back it up.

    Would this be the same EPA that has recently poisoned a river, and stood by while the good people of Flint, Michigan were poisoned by their water? Based on the record, I think the EPA is a failed organization that needs drastic pruning.

    Please source this claim.

    Not all research is worthy of funding. Agree? Or do you think it reasonable that all research should get public money?

    Again, some evidence to back up your claims would be appreciated.

    Well I’m glad you admit that it’s dishonest to claim the two administrations are exactly the same, since I never said any such thing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
  22. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    How stupid is this? What's next, animal sacrifice?
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
  23. Hoosier8

    Hoosier8 Well-Known Member Past Donor

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    The only one's undermining the science are the idiots that think the science is settled.
     
  24. SuperSymmetry

    SuperSymmetry Member

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    I've already addressed this.

    Oh dear...

    http://www.awdnews.com/political/mi...ght-in-public-schools-darwin-is-just-a-theory
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/shaena...volution-heres-why-that-matters/#3e971a1015a7
    https://www.propublica.org/article/...words-for-creationism-offshoot-raise-concerns

    https://thinkprogress.org/steve-ban...-superiority-are-shared-by-trump-243d73866e2d
    https://www.usnews.com/opinion/thom...racists-like-raymond-wolters-in-the-trump-era

    I agree, but that doesn't mean I agree with anything else you're saying. I believe that the decision whether to fund grant proposals should stay with organizations like the NIH.

    It's certainly not settled, but not at all in the way that science deniers think it is.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2017
  25. NullSpot the Destroyter

    NullSpot the Destroyter Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it’s discouraging to learn how science is being politicized to pursue a social justice agenda.0

    That source quoted Pence saying things that don’t support what the headline says he said. And when I clicked on the video to double-check, I ended up on a malware site.

    Thanks for that. I’ll approach your cites more carefully from now on.

    Ah, so critical thinking is a characteristic of those who disagree with AGW alarmists. That explains so much.

    That cite didn’t quote Bannon saying anything about race realism.
    And that cite didn’t even MENTION Bannon. Why are you promoting fake news?

    It’s nice to have beliefs, but as I said, elections have consequences. Trump has a right to prioritize where the public’s money is spent without being called anti-science by those who opposed his election.
     

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